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Posted by amethyst on 17-10-2009 at 05:08:
TJ, sounds like you can't wait to review that episode 
But, you do have a point. Maybe the writer just didn't have enough time to come up with a passable storyline for this episode to fit into the BotP universe.
I wonder, can we sue ACT for emotional damages due to their frequent censoring and exposing us, as children, to an anthropomorphic robot shaped like a vibrator that exhibited classic phallic symbolism in response to the female voice.
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Posted by gatchamarie on 17-10-2009 at 10:38:
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LB, you cracked me up with laughter with this one! I just kept picturing Joe in my mind with Velma's spectacles and hair! He just doesn't fit in her clothes ... poor Joe!
TJ, just reading your summary regarding the BOTP adaptation of Gatch episode 88 made me feel like I was going to have an upset stomach! Mind you ... it's not your writing, for heaven's sake, but the existence of Zark and all the anomalies found in BOTP! No wonder I couldn't watch it when I was younger and I cannot watch even now ... with no offense to anyone!
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To be or not to be a gatchamaniac - that's the dilemma!
Posted by nuni on 17-10-2009 at 12:19:
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LOL!
Posted by Transmute Jun on 17-10-2009 at 13:15:
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Actually, as I was watching it and shaking my head in amazement, I pulled out my Jason Hofius book and checked... BOTP Episode 53 (which is what we were watching) is Gatchaman Episode 88. That's an even-numbered episode, so that's LB's week, so she'll be reviewing that one. And I know she'll want to, since there's some good Condor stuff in this one.
But perhaps, just to scare you all, I'll make some animations of Zark 'fighting' and 'dancing' for that week.
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Posted by gatchamarie on 17-10-2009 at 13:25:
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Noooooooooo!!!!
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To be or not to be a gatchamaniac - that's the dilemma!
Posted by amethyst on 17-10-2009 at 14:58:
The fighting and dancing can't be any worse than the persistent antenna erections. 
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Perspective Alters Reality
Posted by UnpublishedWriter on 17-10-2009 at 16:28:
Ms Ann O'Malley on the Gatchfanfic site has/had plenty to say about the heavy-handed innuendo on BOTP. In the micro-robot episode, when the team's discussing how to find Spectra, someone mentions looking for disturbed trees, and Tiny says they should look for disturbed grass skirts. Ms O'Malley says THAT is the right way to do innuendo. (Yes, I was able to stop laughing long enough to read that.)
Oh, look at the screen-cap of the hotel maid. I swear, she looks EXACTLY like that musclebound minion from the 'Iron Snake 828' episode!
Yeah, there were a few BOTP episodes that didn't even pay lip service to the Gatch plot.
As for Berg Katse's dual nature: there are ADULT television series that would have trouble with the idea. Anyone remember the viewer advisory warning on that episode of Deep Space Nine, when Jadzia meets the girlfriend of one of her symbiont's previous hosts? A big hoopla for a bit of girl-on-girl lip-lock, barely ten seconds worth. (This is why protesters must be careful and stay on target: they can become the best advertising FOR whatever they dislike.)
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Benefits, not features; benefits, not features
Posted by lborgia88 on 17-10-2009 at 17:01:
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It makes me wonder why the makers of BOTP even used this episode if they wanted to avoid death and Katse's whole gender mystery. Surely, among the 20 episodes that they did omit, some would have been easier to adapt than this one. Episode 66, the one with the fashion show, the Devil Stars and roller skating would have made a great BOTP episode (as long as they figured out a way around the fact that Zoltar could successfully disguise himself as a woman fashion designer).
It could be entertaining to take one of the 20 omitted episodes and rewrite it to be a plausible BOTP episode -complete with Zark, the Ready Room, travel to other planets, and cutting or "creatively reinterpreting" all the "objectionable" parts.
Granted, some would sure be harder to pull off than others! I can just imagine Joe's death scene where he's lying on the grass at Karakoram, being changed to Jason explaining to the others that a Spectran soldier shot him with a tranquilizer dart earlier (which is why he's having trouble standing up) but that he's fine -they should all just head inside the base anyway to stop Zoltar- and he'll rejoin them just as soon as it wears off.
Posted by Transmute Jun on 17-10-2009 at 17:07:
I think there is an older BOTP Mailing List challenge to do just what you suggested, LB... take an 'unused' Gatch episode and write it as BOTP.
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Posted by tatsunokofan on 17-10-2009 at 23:04:
Hi all!
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Unfortunately, we really don't know what criteria Jameson Brewer used when deciding which episodes to use. For all we know, he simply reached into the stack and randomly picked whatever episode they did next.
In many ways, I have found that it's best to view BotP as its own separate entity, without trying to compare it directly to the original. It's very common, in particular with people newer to active fandom, to dismiss BotP as little more than "butchered Gatchaman," but that tosses aside the good aspects of BotP along with the bad. Sure, the show isn't flawless, but for most of us, it's what drew us into the fandom in the first place. As such, it deserves some respect. I know it isn't easy to change your midset like this, but you might try looking at BotP not for how they changed it from the original. Instead, try looking at it for what made it so appealing in the first place. When judged on its own merits, and not judged against the source material, the series holds up fairly well. The same holds true for G-Force, and Eagle Riders.
By the way, episode #50 was included in the run of G-Force. They edited out the part where the man was found with the knife in his back and Jinpei waves the knife at the maid, though they did leave in the shower scene! Anyway, after Hootie unties him, Peewee comments that they won't be able to get any sleep after an experience like they've just had, and suggests that they go exploring instead. Then, they simply had Ace give a voiceover where he says, "After they left, someone sneaked into their room and finished off the holdup man." Bad news for the holdup man, but it was one way to keep the plot intact without showing the bloody knife!
James
Posted by Becky Rock on 17-10-2009 at 23:19:
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It could be worse. Zark could explain to us how Jason found the base, radioed for help and then accidentally ran into one of the Easter Island-like statues and cold cocked himself. Princess successfully revived him so he could help with the mission.
We wouldn't see him, of course, but then Zark would say Jason was guarding the exit to make sure Zoltar didn't get away this time.
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Posted by lborgia88 on 17-10-2009 at 23:28:
It's true that I like Gatchman more than Battle of the Planets, but BOTP is what drew me into the fandom, and I can still enjoy it for the show that is as well as for the happy nostalgia it evokes in me (though I'll admit the Zark bits do irk me often). I would never call it a "translation" -it stands as its own show. Mostly I was thinking that the BOTP writers and animators seemed to have made more script-writing, additional animation-producing and editing work for themselves by picking certain episodes in lieu of others, and wondered why they would do that as I'm under the impression that the BOTP episodes were produced under tight deadlines. It sounds, from what you say, though, that they worked with what they were given, when they were given it.
The fact that so many of the Gatch episodes involving grim occurrences for Joe (ep. 20, 78, 81, the final few etc.) weren't used does suggest that someone (likely Brewer) was paying some attention to their visual content when choosing the ones that would be used in Battle of the Planets.
Posted by Transmute Jun on 18-10-2009 at 01:08:
James makes an excellent point: that many of us started out watching BOTP, and we were so fascinated by it that we were drawn into Gatchaman as adults, many years later. I agree that BOTP has its own charm (although for me, that doesn't include Zark) which is why I enjoy watching the BOTP episodes and writing them up. I also enjoy watching BOTP episodes on their own and enjoying them as they were intended to be seen.
Okay, here are a few positives about BOTP (JMHO):
* Mark and Princess were clearly much more interested in each other than Ken and Jun. This is especially true for Mark.
* BOTP tried hard to give names to every character, while in Gatchaman many one-episode characters remained nameless.
* The term 'transmute' is way cooler than 'Bird Go'. JMHO.
* The term 'communicators' is way cooler than 'bracelets'. JMHO
* The BOTP music score is awesome!
Anyone else want to add some? I know I didn't get all of them.
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Posted by tatsunokofan on 18-10-2009 at 01:26:
Hi all!
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They weren't just "communicators," they were Cosmic Communicators(tm)!
James
Posted by Transmute Jun on 18-10-2009 at 03:04:
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Even cooler!
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Posted by gatchamarie on 18-10-2009 at 10:53:
It's true ... here I'm one of the least who can judge BOTP! To be honest, BOTP was the very first series that I could watch on our national tv channel without ever knowing about the existence of Gatchaman. But, this did not take long as the Gatchaman I series was aired on Italian channels just approximately at the same period of time that I was watching BOTP and when I discovered Gatch, I was literally hooked by it instantly, scrapping BOTP away! Then came Gatchaman II and Gatch F, my favorite, these being aired multiple of times after their first appearance! Even if I was very young I could distinguish the whole difference between the series and preferred Gatch ... all this could be solely Zark's fault! I found Gatchaman more serious and constant in its plot and I always loved the sense of reality, with all its harshness and hard lines, against the funny aspect they gave in BOTP. I know that in BOTP Mark and Princess were more interested in each other than Ken and Jun but the drama was there (in Gatch) and I always sought excitedly for the slightest hint in Gatch, which I also sometimes found, leaving space for my imagination to generate all kinds of stories! Not leaving out the emotional aspect that grew with all the characters' evolution throughout the Gatch series until the end.
Heck, believe me here (I'm not lying!) and don't laugh at me, but just last night I dreamt of finally discovering a sequel series of Gatchaman which was being aired on an unknown tv channel! I remember clearly hearing myself in my dream saying that I must inform all of you about this awesome find and I woke up feeling excited as if it were really happening! LOL I didn't say anything to my DH with embarassment! I should be a mature woman by now!
BTW, Becky Rock, I love your new avatar!
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To be or not to be a gatchamaniac - that's the dilemma!
Posted by UnpublishedWriter on 18-10-2009 at 17:06:
I've said it to a couple of other people, but I think one reason we were all impressed by BOTP was the animation. American animation at the time was dominated by the side-scroll style. Characters and objects went left-to-right or right-to-left, and if any went elsewhere, they were out of the shot. No (or very few) panning shots, very limited and stereotypical close-ups, and not so many facial expressions.
By contrast, BOTP had pans, zooms, close-ups, and the characters and vehicles moved all over the screen, much like live-action television. They also had cool villains and mecha. The characters weren't as goofy as the ones on shows like Scooby-Doo, even if Keyop was more annoying than cute.
(I'm revisiting BOTP on the veoh site. It has its charms, but it seems --- slight by comparison. Guess it's the lack of angst. Now that I have high-speed, maybe I WILL risk making up some reviews.)
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Benefits, not features; benefits, not features
Posted by amethyst on 18-10-2009 at 19:27:
I think the vocal cast of BotP did an amazing job, even the characters that I didn't get into as much as others, or were found to be annoying. I'd much rather listen to them than the cast of GoS, even though that show was much truer to original intent, the ensemble fell flat.
James said earlier that, quite correctly, that they are three entirely different shows. Actually I'd like to say four, as the ADV English dub has a completely different feel from the subbed version, some of it is translation, but much of it is cultural and characterizations from the actors who bring something different to the show.
To some extent I think that the complaints about certain aspects of what was done or not done by the writers/producers/translators of the different incarnations are a credit to how much we all really love this and care about it enough to pick it apart (though we might still have the childish inclination to put it back together again when we are done)
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Perspective Alters Reality
Posted by Becky Rock on 18-10-2009 at 20:40:
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Thanks, Gatchmarie!
I started watching BotP in 1978 when it first came out and I didn't find out about Gatchaman until 2001 while living in Gernmany. I finally got to watch the sereies a few years ago when it came out on DVD in English. Although great, my love is still BotP. I much prefer Jason's personality to Joe's.
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Posted by Becky Rock on 18-10-2009 at 20:41:
Please excuse my typing. My RA is acting up today and I'm typing too fast for it.
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I'm writing a book. I've got the page numbers so far...
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