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--- Why do we like superheroes? (http://www.gatchamania.net/threadid.php?threadid=5079)
Posted by Becky Rock on 15-04-2016 at 23:43:
Why do we like superheroes?
While driving to work this morning, I listened to a discussion about the Batman Vs Superman movie and the upcoming Capn America Civil War movie. The hosts asked why the superheroes just can't get along and the comic worlds' debate on who could beat whom.
Then the news talked about a 103 yr old woman being mugged by some piece of scum.
My first thought was when they catch the scum, they should just put him against a wall and shoot him - drastic, I know, but how is anyone like that going to ever positively contribute to society?
Then I thought - where are the superheroes when you need them?
This thought moved onward to why do we like superheroes so much? I consider Gatchaman/G-Frice/Eagle Riders, etc superheroes to a degree.
I think people like to pretend there's someone out there looking out for them. That there's someone in the shadows just waiting for evil to show its ugly face and take it out. Someone impervious to our daily problems and weaknesses.
Yet they aren't impervious to our weaknesses. If hit hard enough, they bleed and can die. They have trouble with relationships in their private lives. They have differences of opinion. They act like the gangs in our big cities by having a 'war' amongst themselves.
What kind of example does that make them for our children when even the superheroes can't solve their problems civilly?
At least our Birdstyle friends haven't devolved to that level.
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Posted by ElectricWhite on 16-04-2016 at 00:01:
Superheroes are modern versions of the ancient gods and goddesses. The myths show countless examples of someone with greater than human abilities giving in to human weaknesses.
But a void was created as monotheism and science pushed ancient beliefs behind. Today's superheroes try to fill that void.
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Posted by ChrisW on 16-04-2016 at 04:03:
Ken and Joe punch each other all the time.
An interesting point, EW!
Some people can be rehabilitated. It depends on why they're doing what they're doing.
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Posted by Becky Rock on 16-04-2016 at 16:01:
So we are spending tons of money to go to the theaters to watch the substitutes for the old gods either save the world or knock themselves koo-koo?
Or are we so desperate for things to turn out right and to have the fleeting feeling of safety we patronize the movies where the superheroes save everyone wishing it were true?
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Posted by msannomalley on 16-04-2016 at 16:26:
This is an interesting topic. It's certainly a lot of food for thought. I'm still mulling over the original question because there is a lot to think about. From a psychological perspective, it's human nature to want the quick fix for our problems. A superhero is a "quick fix" in some ways because someone else has to do the dirty work of sorting through moral ambiguity and always doing the right thing.
When I think of the "super hero" model, I think of how super hero shows (including BoTP) were presented to us when we were kids. There was rarely, if ever, any moral ambiguity. Right was right and wrong was wrong and there was no gray area. This is how we, as humans, want life to work. We want the easy solution because having it means that we don't have to face our own demons or other things about us that cause us pain.
One of the biggest reasons, for me personally, why Gatchaman (the original) appeals to me more than BoTP does, is that there is ambiguity and that the "heroes" are allowed to have flaws and make mistakes (and thusly, have to suffer the consequences of their decisions). I can relate to them when I see their flaws. Plus the psych major and psychology geek in me is fascinated by what makes people act the way they do.
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Posted by Becky Rock on 16-04-2016 at 17:08:
I watch Big Bag Theory. Sometimes they emphasize how they live in a fantasy world rather than reality, when they talk about superheros and Star Trek, Star Wars, other various sci fi series and movies. I've seen examples of people who would rather live in the fantasy than the real.
What does that say about we fanfic writers?
Although our society pays homage to superheroes, how would it react to an actual vigilante who had the training necessary to be effective at taking out the low lifes? Whether that be to kill them or string them up for the police to find? Would we honor him or hunt him down like the rest of the criminals?
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Posted by ChrisW on 16-04-2016 at 18:57:
There is a truly classic graphic novel called "The Watchmen" on the theme of "who watches the watchers?" It tackles the issue of what it might really be like if there were superheros in the real world. I highly recommend it.
They also did a movie. It's a pretty close telling of the story, though they had to remove a side story to make it work.
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Posted by msannomalley on 16-04-2016 at 22:58:
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I think it depends on who the vigilante was going after and what their methods are. As a culture, we are so polarized, I think it would be very difficult for us to come to a consensus on if the vigilante and his or her motivations are right or wrong. Some people see themselves as vigilante-types, even if they don't fit the mold of how we picture a vigilante.
What defines a low life? Is that criteria based upon their actions only? Or do other things like socioeconomic status come into play? Is the poor person who assaults an old woman and steals her purse more of a lowlife than the sociopath who scams a wealthy old woman out of her life savings? Is the low life the person who murders cops or is it the cop who is corrupt and gets away with it?
It is healthy to delve into fantasy as an escape, but it's not healthy to constantly live in a fantasy world. Eventually, you're going to have to face reality and the longer you put it off, the harder the inevitable is going to be.
This is a really interesting topic.
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Posted by ElectricWhite on 16-04-2016 at 23:16:
"The Watchmen" is an excellent work!
I think vigilantes' public support would have a limited lifespan. As long as violent criminals are taken off the street, the vigilante will have the general public's support. (I haven't forgotten that there will be some who will question and criticize the vigilante's motives and methods, but they'd be considered on the fringe as long as the "hero" is popular.) But once the vigilante takes a criminal with a noble motive (for example, a man who's been committing robberies because he can't afford the cancer treatments needed to keep his kid alive) off the street, the support will start slipping away.
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Posted by Becky Rock on 17-04-2016 at 00:54:
I didn't know that was what Watchmen was about. I caught a little it of it a while back and the scene reminded me so much of Sin City I turned it off.
I do have to admit the villians the superheroes fight against are bigger than life and over the top. There's no one alive that's really like them.
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Posted by ChrisW on 17-04-2016 at 01:28:
The graphic novel for the Watchmen predates the Sin City comic, so ... *shrug* 
I tend to prefer the rule of law and making sure people get arrested and tried in a non-corrupt system to someone going out there and thinking they can be judge, jury, and executioner. I'm sure there were/are serial killers who saw themselves as vigilantes. Lines can blur and get crossed awfully fast.
Gatchaman is interesting because the team works for an NGO (Non Governmental Organization or whatever). You could say that they're vigilantes themselves.
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Posted by ElectricWhite on 17-04-2016 at 01:54:
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Well, I'd say the ISO was more the vigilante than Gatchaman....kind of like a transmission isn't a race car but the race car needs to use the transmission to operate.
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Posted by msannomalley on 17-04-2016 at 02:10:
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I don't know if I would say they were vigilantes. If Nambu was working on his own and without the backing of the ISO and the resources they have, I could see the vigilante argument. Vigilantes take it upon themselves to enforce the law, but without actually having legal authority to do so, and even then, it's usually how they themselves interpret the law. I was always under the impression that the ISO was supposed to be the science version of the United Nations, and in that regard, the SNT has the legal and moral authority, via the ISO, to do what they do.
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Posted by ElectricWhite on 17-04-2016 at 02:45:
Well....the thing that has me thinking that the ISO has vigilante traits is that, as a general rule, scientific organizations don't have their own paramilitary force. The different components of the UN don't have the authority to send peacekeepers wherever they want -- they have to go before the General Assembly for that.
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Posted by Becky Rock on 17-04-2016 at 20:34:
ISO could have been the International Security Organization... They do call the team the Science Ninja Team probably because ISO stood for the International Science Organization.
That does make one wonder how the ISO ended up in charge of Gatchaman.
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Posted by RIgirl on 17-04-2016 at 20:44:
Hey guys! Hope you don't mind if I join in the conversation with a few little thoughts --
With the original question, why do we like superheroes so much, it is partly what everyone has already mentioned, but also because we like to picture ourselves in their places -- we are living vicariously through them. We like to think that, if called upon, we would -- or could, with the right superpowers -- do all of the awesome things they do and save the world. I mean, that beats the boring old 9-to-5 desk job, right?
As to the ISO, well, it is a little odd that a scientific organization would have a better military than the U.N., but since they are backed by President Anderson, what they are doing isn't exactly breaking any laws. Obviously, everyone knows what they're doing if they always call them in!
Plus, originally, if I understand correctly, the ISO's original purpose was to promote world peace and sustainability through the Mantle Project. The Science Ninja Team came into being to find Galactor headquarters and basically use their ninja skills to take back whatever Galactor tried to steal from them. Not exactly military maneuvers, but then as things progressed, Galactor got increasingly violent and the team had no choice but to either step up or let others take over, hence the whole team getting their personal vehicles armed and they stopped the whole "ask for permission to hit the shiny red button" thing.
As for me, personally, I like the superhero idea -- and ideal -- because they are what I would like to be -- someone strong, powerful, and can hold my own in a fight. Maybe some day ....
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Posted by Becky Rock on 17-04-2016 at 23:04:
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I was referring to the movie Sin City, which I had watched before seeing that part of The Watchmen, vice the graphic novels.
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Posted by Becky Rock on 17-04-2016 at 23:06:
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dupe entry
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Posted by Becky Rock on 17-04-2016 at 23:16:
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You have a point, RI. I think at some point in our childhoods we all pretended to be a superhero. Each of us may have had a different reason for doing so, but maybe our tie to them started really early in our lives and now takes us back to simpler times to escape the horror in the world at times.
We know there were several occasions where Joe didn't bother to ask for permission to use the big red button.
I don't remember if this was in the Turtle King Gatch episode, but I seem to remember someone in the BoTP version mentioning it wasn't the team's first time going up against Spectra.
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Posted by ElectricWhite on 17-04-2016 at 23:36:
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I remember Mark saying that it was Spectra's third attack, though everyone on both sides acted as though it was their first encounter with each other. Now, if that means that G-Force had two previous meetings and neither side still had no idea what to do when attack #3 happened, or if G-Force hadn't been deployed during the previous two attacks is something I don't know...though I'm sure there's someone who can set matters straight. (Two gentlemen instantly popped into my head...)
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