Okay, folks, let's see how you handle rejection

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Ooooh the implications.... does this mean all the team risk loosing their sight... or worse? For the record, I think camille did the right thing, and I hope Jason comes round to that way of thinking eventually.

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Yay, Lunulet, welcome, and well done for finally taking the plunge... really love this little scene, btw. Now don't be shy, you can go back and add to any prompt piece that similarly inspires you, and if you fancy submitting a prompt yourself, (no obligation to of course) just PM Ame. Hope to see more of you around the threads

Thanks for diving in, Lunulet!

Jublke, I love the angst you've created here! I can see how Camille has done the right thing for Jason, but not necessarily for Galaxy Security/the Federation as a whole. Hopefully her father (as ethics commissioner) will be able to understand what's at stake when he investigates. KT, I can see Ken making that mistake! But will he come home without the diapers? Welcome, Lunulet! It's great to see you here, and I loved your contribution! It's good to see the guys enjoying their work. I hope to see more contributions (both Bradbury's Jar prompts and regular posts) in the future!

Joe stalked into Dr. Nambu's office, slamming the door behind him so hard the wall trembled behind him. Outwardly the Doctor appeared only mildly interested by the unexpected intrusion, raising a half-hearted eyebrow in a questioning manner, but inside he was taken aback by the immensity of his foster son's anger. He could practically see the steam rising out of Joe's ears. "This is your doing, isn't it?" Joe sneered, throwing the crumpled object in his hands onto the Doctor's desk. Seeing as it was just a piece of paper, it didn't land with the emphasis Joe would have liked, and this only fueled his rage all the more. "What is this?" Dr. Nambu asked calmly, although he had a feeling he already knew. "I've been rejected!" Joe shouted in disbelief. "I'm the best damn racer on that circuit, but my application to go professional has been rejected! They won't let me compete in the nationals!" He placed both palms face down on the Doctor's desk, leaning forward aggressively with a glare that would have frightened a lesser man. As it was, Dr. Nambu had to fight to maintain his unruffled exterior. "Obviously there was something missing from your application..." the Doctor began, but Joe interrupted. "You're damn right something was missing!" he snarled. "You never sent in that letter of permission, did you? I'm only sixteen, so a letter of permission from a parent or guardian is required." His dark, accusatory gaze bored into the Doctor. "You could have at least told me." Joe scowled. "Joe, professional racing is an entirely different league. I think you need to wait until you are eighteen to..." "Why didn't you tell me this two weeks ago when I asked you to send in the letter?" Joe shouted. "I should have." Dr. Nambu admitted. "I'm sorry, Joe." "Like that means anything." Joe hissed, turning to storm out of the room, wrenching the door open and slamming it behind him again. The pictures on the walls shook with the impact, and two books fell from a nearby bookcase. Alone, Dr. Nambu allowed himself the luxury of a small sigh, burying his head in his hands. Two weeks ago he hadn't had the latest report. He was going to have to institute his plan far sooner than he expected... years sooner. The Science Ninja Team was going to be commissioned within a matter of days. He didn't have the 5 years he had anticipated. The Doctor couldn't afford to let Joe race professionally now, when he would need to be training every spare moment. He could only hope that one day, Joe would understand that the sacrifice had been necessary.

Oh dear TJ, wouldn't like to get on the wrong side of the Condor that day...... I would hope that Joe will see sense when he's had time to cool off a bit. Great piece... any chance you could continue this?

Originally posted by KT1972 Great piece... any chance you could continue this?

I don't know. I just thought of this one off the top of my head. I should think the 'next part' would be fairly obvious though. Shortly Nambu will reveal to his 5 'wards' what he has been planning all along: that they will be come the Science Ninja Team. Then they'll enter a grueling training regimen. Joe may not be pleased about having to cut back on his racing, but he'll understand that this is for the 'greater good' and his need to gain revenge for the deaths of his parents will have a significant effect in reducing his anger toward the Doctor. Um... if you want, you could write that part.

lol, thanks TJ, but I'm saving myself now for the gift exchange!! anyone else like to pick it up though?

Originally posted by KT1972 but I'm saving myself now for the gift exchange!!

Is that anything like saving yourself for marraige?

@TransmuteJun... Ok, YES, because when you sit down to write fanfic and you try to make Gatchaman sort of logical -- I could really see Nambu refusing to let Joe get into racing, at least at first. (Not that Nambu has any problem risking Joe's life, but only for a good cause, not for *fun*. Nambu sees a distinction there.) Nambu is probably my favorite character to read in fanfic for this reason. He makes absolutely NO sense in the series so I just love to see what people do with him. You write a gentler Nambu here. I love it.

Originally posted by ElectricWhite

Originally posted by KT1972 but I'm saving myself now for the gift exchange!!

Is that anything like saving yourself for marraige?

So... you're saying the gift exchange will rob her of her innocence and screw her over? Lunulet, I vary from fic to fic as to how I portray some of the characters, and Namub is one of them. To be fair though, I tend to write Nambu as more caring and long-suffering, and Chief Anderson (from BOTP) as a little more manipulative and controlling. There are exceptions in both cases, but that's usually how it tends to come out...

Originally posted by Transmute Jun

Originally posted by ElectricWhite

Originally posted by KT1972 but I'm saving myself now for the gift exchange!!

Is that anything like saving yourself for marraige?

So... you're saying the gift exchange will rob her of her innocence and screw her over?

Innocent?

jublke: I do like this one. Jason has every right to be freaked out, and while Camille felt like she was doing the right thing (and was dealing with her own terror and issues), she should have talked to him about finding a better way to handle this. There's such a potential for catastrophic consequences, and she's put herself in a position where Jason might never be able to trust her again to the extent of staying together. (In other words, I really don't agree with those who feel she made the right decision, but she made a very human decision.) KT: Poor Ken, saves the world on a regular basis and now gets treated like scum for grabbing the wrong debit card. Lunulet: Welcome to the weekly prompts! It's a lot of fun letting a story be guided by them, if a bit stressful at times. I enjoyed this, Joe is totally happy with the excuse to make things go boom, and it's nice to see Ken being a bit playful about it. TJ: Every once in a while I wonder how many shattered dreams the kids had, and how early they knew exactly what they were being prepared for. This is a good look at one very plausible possibility.

Originally posted by ChrisW KT: Poor Ken, saves the world on a regular basis and now gets treated like scum for grabbing the wrong debit card.

Chris - Gatchaman or not, when it comes to real life, he's as human as the rest of us.....

Originally posted by KT1972 Chris - Gatchaman or not, when it comes to real life, he's as human as the rest of us.....

Ha! That reminds me a bit of Springie's Mission Impossible fic...

Jublke--nice bit, Two things have troubled me on my second read of this bit is Camille's father (does he have a name) was that he not only was a world class athlete, but a skilled neuro-scientist as well to be working on these implants....career wise seems to be a bit of a stretch. Secondly, the fact that even after his efforts to get his daughter into the program, that the ISO even considered him to be a part of their ethics program at all. That would sorta-well, be like the Wall Street bankers be in charge of their own investigations and further policing--uh, wait..sorry...bad analogy. (hee hee.) KT-your bit made me snicker. Ken is ever short of cash...even in the future, and even when it is not his fault. Too bad he doesn't have some one to straighten his finances, eh? I Lunulet-fun little story, I like action, and explosions even better! Great way to dive into the group though, with a fic posting, I did pretty much the same almost a year ago...and the rest they say is history. TJ-nice little teenaged tantrum there...although I fully expected Joe to jerk the door off its hinges, or put a fist through the wall...my boy is an expert at fiberglass patches btw...I was kinda surprised also that Nambu let it fly like it did...he didn't seem to let them get away with much, at least as far as Ken was concerned, in the series.

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Originally posted by k2p2 Jublke--nice bit, Two things have troubled me on my second read of this bit is Camille's father (does he have a name) was that he not only was a world class athlete, but a skilled neuro-scientist as well to be working on these implants....career wise seems to be a bit of a stretch.

I could see this as being possible. Think about the age of some of those athletes we were watching in the recent summer olympics. Gymnasts tend to stop being top class by the time they are 20 or even late teens, the divers and swimmers were in their teens or early 20's - yes there were a some older athletes there as well - but the average age is quite young these days (to my eyes anyways.) So, it is possible to be an olympic athlete, and then go on to University and get a good degree after your olympic career. I agree becoming a Neuro-surgeon is not likely, but it is possible if the person competed at a very young age and then had time to spend 6-8 years to become a doctor/surgeon .... And who is to say Camille's father was a TOP olympic athlete. Perhaps he was good enough to be on the olympic team but placed 20th (or 100th) overall. People tend to forget that those participants are still considered Olympic athletes - they only consider the top 3 as the best and only. (I am trying to remember if Julie had mentioned how well Camille's father did in the olympics.)

k2: As far as jublke's story goes, there's athletes who are also brilliant scholastically, I don't think that's unbelievable. If they turn the same focus they had on their athletics to their study field of choice they have a great chance of succeeding. Also, there's no one better in some ways to (overzealously) "police" than someone who feels they've screwed up before. Former smokers, people who've lost a lot of weight, etc., can be terribly sanctimonious and convinced that everyone has to be like they are now. That said, it's very possible that the fact that the man experimented on his own daughter was hushed up by GalSec in the first place. The rest of the ethics board might have no idea. ETA: High-level athletes often have problems with depression when they stop training for injury or leaving the sport. Throwing oneself into one's studies would be one way of dealing with that. As far as your piece, it's nice to see Ryu getting some romance. He certainly went all out! And it's another glimpse into the warm relationship that he and Iona have, that she's willing to tell him that it just doesn't work.

K2... I'm glad Ryu has someone to go out with! And also that he's taking the fashion advice gracefully...

Yay, Ryu is getting some romance...and some out-of-the-ship mission action! I love both ideas.

Jublke ... such a powerful piece! I like ChrisW's definition that Camille might have made a very "human" decision, but potential mistake, all in the interest of her beloved! Can't wait to read more of what's coming! And, don't we do like Jason many a time?! ... that of whispering words in our minds without finally saying them loudly! KT ... I'm chuckling at the thought of Ken's worst nightmare, that of always being out of cash, still haunting him! Nice little piece! Guess Ken had to rush back to the store ASAP! Lunulet ... so glad to see that you're posting here! I literally enjoyed your piece, especially since you made sure that our men have been kept happy, especially Joe! I'm eager to read more of your contributions! TJ ... I really don't wish to ever be in Nambu's place! Joe had all the reasons to be furious, but Nambu had his own, valid reasons, also! Lovely way of using this week's word to create this prequel! K2 ... WTG for Ryu! He really deserves this!

I got some time today to read everyone's stories -- nice break!!! Jublke: This opens a whole new chapter for the team -- not only is their identity compromised, they may actually be in serious danger as far as their health is concerned -- can't wait to see where you're going with this! KT: Oh, it's so sweet to think of Ken as a confused young dad! I'm sure a similar situation has occured for many young parents. Lunulet: Hi again, nice to have you here! Yup, Plan B -- and Joe is a happy camper. TJ: A loss to circuit racing, a gain for intergalactic defence, but how was he to know? Poor Joe!!! K2: Somehow, I was really moved by the phrase "the effect was as perfect just as it was almost entirely wrong". I think you've summed up many similar awkward situations in just one sentence! Hopefully I'll be able to post something this week, hadn't found the time to do so for two weeks now.

K2 - nice piece, perfectly demonstrating what a cosy relationship those two have, and good on Iona for not letting him go out dressed inappropriately. On the first reading, I thought he was dressed for an interview, instead of a date.

Thanks for all of the enlightening comments....sorry so behind on this...but here goes. CD and Chris---yeah, I suppose that could happen, but to me, one of the things that I see crop up in Fanfiction moreso than in original is what I call the "amazing-character." This person is skilled in may divergent areas...so much so that they are considered the very best...oftentimes they can also be considered a Mary Sue, but not always. More often than not they can be effectvely divided into two seperate characters for the enrichment of the story. To me, and granted, this is only my opinion..these types of 'super characters,' just don't ring as true as they possibly could be... and I would be remiss in mentioning something that stood out for me in an initial editorial pass. TJ--Lunulet-Gatchamarie--KT Thanks! In my original thinkings about Iona I had her bonding much closer to Ryu, but then as the stories came into being, that shifted over into Joe. She has come to him often enough for advice, so it seemed natural that he would reciprocate.. Daniella-I liked that line too! I think we've all had situations like that.

Originally posted by k2p2CD and Chris---yeah, I suppose that could happen, but to me, one of the things that I see crop up in Fanfiction moreso than in original is what I call the "amazing-character." This person is skilled in may divergent areas...so much so that they are considered the very best...oftentimes they can also be considered a Mary Sue, but not always. More often than not they can be effectvely divided into two seperate characters for the enrichment of the story. To me, and granted, this is only my opinion..these types of 'super characters,' just don't ring as true as they possibly could be... and I would be remiss in mentioning something that stood out for me in an initial editorial pass.

K2 I do agree with you on that assessment. I too have seen that happen a lot with characters and sometimes I worry about it with the main characters in my AU. But so far I do not see Julie's character taking on that quality, not that we have met much of him as yet. Hopefully Julie is aware that such problems can occur with mary sue characters, and will not make Camille's father that "perfect".

Originally posted by clouddancer

Originally posted by k2p2CD and Chris---yeah, I suppose that could happen, but to me, one of the things that I see crop up in Fanfiction moreso than in original is what I call the "amazing-character." This person is skilled in may divergent areas...so much so that they are considered the very best...oftentimes they can also be considered a Mary Sue, but not always. More often than not they can be effectvely divided into two seperate characters for the enrichment of the story. To me, and granted, this is only my opinion..these types of 'super characters,' just don't ring as true as they possibly could be... and I would be remiss in mentioning something that stood out for me in an initial editorial pass.

K2 I do agree with you on that assessment. I too have seen that happen a lot with characters and sometimes I worry about it with the main characters in my AU. But so far I do not see Julie's character taking on that quality, not that we have met much of him as yet. Hopefully Julie is aware that such problems can occur with mary sue characters, and will not make Camille's father that "perfect".

The easiest way to balance a character in theory is do just that balance. For every place trait where the character excels, they must have an equal flaw. People are never perfect, so neither should characters be. However, if we are talking about a minor character who will be heard about more than heard from, then it is not unrealistic that we see the character through the eyes of the characters who are revealing this other one to us. In this case, it is not unrealistic to see Camille's father with the same rose-colored glasses as she seems, which is balanced Jason's anger at the same character. Neither will likely be 100% accurate, but somewhere between the two, we should get a good representation of the man. The harder part is when the original character is integral to the story, keeping him or her balanced without having them take over the story, unless that is the goal. It is not impossible, but the one thing we must make sure of as we practice and include OCs in the story is balance, again, but of a different sort. Fanfic readers want to read the characters that they know. The success of the story with an OC depends on how well the OC interacts with the known characters, who should be recognizable to the readers. It is not always an easy thing to pull off, and it could be hit and miss, work for some readers but not for others. However, if the OC takes center-stage relegating the known characters to minor roles or the known characters morph to such a degree that they cannot be recognized the story may be better suited as a piece of original fiction than as a piece of fanfiction. I'm not an expert on including OCs as a writer, I'm still learning myself. However, I've spent many years reading a variety of fanfiction, and I can tell which fandoms may be more tolerant of writers experimenting than others. Because Gatch/BotP had new characters in one form or another in nearly every episode, this fandom is rather tolerant, so long as a regular character is center to the story (there are a few exceptions to this, as there are with most guidelines). In HP or other fandoms with a large number of available or undeveloped characters, some factions are not as tolerable; though the larger the fandom, the more diversity with this.

Originally posted by clouddancer K2 I do agree with you on that assessment. I too have seen that happen a lot with characters and sometimes I worry about it with the main characters in my AU. But so far I do not see Julie's character taking on that quality, not that we have met much of him as yet. Hopefully Julie is aware that such problems can occur with mary sue characters, and will not make Camille's father that "perfect".

Given that the man destroyed his own daughter's sight by experimenting on her just for sports reasons, he's far from a "perfect" character.

Originally posted by ChrisW

Originally posted by clouddancer K2 I do agree with you on that assessment. I too have seen that happen a lot with characters and sometimes I worry about it with the main characters in my AU. But so far I do not see Julie's character taking on that quality, not that we have met much of him as yet. Hopefully Julie is aware that such problems can occur with mary sue characters, and will not make Camille's father that "perfect".

Given that the man destroyed his own daughter's sight by experimenting on her just for sports reasons, he's far from a "perfect" character.

Very true Chris and prefect is not quite the word I was/am looking for but at the time I was writing that comment, with a mass of 7 year old marching in the classroom door from recess, I could not find the word I was looking .... still can not quite find the word that conveys the feeling/idea I am trying to get across.

perhaps "idealistic" would be a better description?

Thank you Amethyst for the observation and analysis. In my own story I am thinking about all the amazing traits that I have given Mark - making him appear to be "perfect" and able to overcome everything. When I reveal to others what Mark can do, at this present time in my AU (the one that is always continuously playing in my mind) then it appears Mark has all these incredible abilities. What I have to remind myself is that usually I gave him these abilities AFTER he encountered some "breaking" situation. In other words usually I have pushed him to a limit, before he discovers the skill/ability that helps him. He has had to go through an ordeal before he is given the skill he needs. Would that be along the same line as your balance you talk about Amethyst? Not so much a flaw as you describe, so much as he needs to strengthen his character before he can get the skill he needs.

Originally posted by KT1972 perhaps "idealistic" would be a better description?

Yes better, I was thinking infallible as well ...

Originally posted by clouddancer In my own story I am thinking about all the amazing traits that I have given Mark - making him appear to be "perfect" and able to overcome everything. When I reveal to others what Mark can do, at this present time in my AU (the one that is always continuously playing in my mind) then it appears Mark has all these incredible abilities.

I don't know that it would qualify as a flaw, but it is consistent with the way most supernatural abilities are discovered. In the case of your story, even though it is AU, the characters are recognizable as themselves. Ask any Jason fan most will tell you that Mark almost always comes across as too perfect, whether that is true or not or just a perception from the way the stories are set up is open for debate. Canon has set up that to some degree Mark has a sense of precognition about him, but it is not always infallible. So you are more than justified in making Mark appear perfect, even if that is not always true. In many ways, we also have a lot of latitude in making the characters recognizable because of all of the different canonical incarnations beyond the tv shows (I, personally, might get a little concerned if some one wanted to use the more recent comics that TJ has been posting as their canonical reference point for a story, it is a valid one; though, it might make for an interesting parody). Many people often discount fanfic writers as writers, because we cannot claim our work and publish in non-traditional methods, but many fanfic writers write in other genres as well, many are published, while others are just having fun. We write for ourselves, but we share with others. When we have a realistic idea of what readers want, we are better able to use the tools we have (reviews, read counts, etc) to gauge story acceptance and areas for growth.

I admitted writing Gatch fanfic to a film exec at a conference I'm attending the other night, and in front of another writer. Neither of them batted an eyelash. Turns out he's also a Gatch/BOTP fan too.

I can't remember if I mentioned but during teacher interviews this spring I had to take in an "artifact" that represented my teaching style/philosophy. Something I have always had trouble finding. This year I took in my Kewpie Gatchaman team characters ... I had two people recognize them during my interviews which really excited me. Unfortunately I did not get hired at either of those schools. Chris very cool that you got to talk to a film exec, are you planning on writing a screen play?

Originally posted by ChrisW I admitted writing Gatch fanfic to a film exec at a conference I'm attending the other night, and in front of another writer. Neither of them batted an eyelash. Turns out he's also a Gatch/BOTP fan too.

While this instance seems to have turned out okay, you should still be careful who knows about your fanfic. (Please hear me out before dismissing me.) Publishing firms have a written "no fanfic" policy, and their editors will reject work from anybody they know who writes fanfic rather than risk accept something that might be reworked fanfic (no matter how well it's been reworked.) True, Fifty Shades of Gray is an exception, but it's the only exception, and publishers have come right out and said that it won't change their position on fanfic or fanfic writers.

Wow! I've been away from the board for a few days and I appreciate everyone who chimed in on Camille's father. Nice to see my OC generate so much discussion! K2, I think I see what you are driving at and it isn't that he's a Gary Stu so much as he is an overly-integral part of the plot & backstory of the team to a degree that isn't plausible. Personally, I have no problem with him having Olympic aspirations -- maybe Camille's mom won the medal -- as well as experimenting in human physiology. I think an interest in one could lead to an interest in the other for the right person. The problem for me is that I don't think he could also - with his history - be in charge of Gal Sec's Ethics Board. I'm not even sure it makes sense for him to work for Galaxy Security at all. Maybe they paid him off to share his secrets and gave him a mock job with no security clearances whatsoever. What I am contemplating is having him be a nosy, noisy, whining anti-implant fanatic, one who may have stumbled into a bigger story than he realizes. As for Camille ... it was really hard for me to leave her like that with Jason mad at her and possibly no hope for reconciliation. Even though, as a writer, I knew that my beta readers were right and she deserved what she got, I still felt like Jason was mad at me - as the writer - for messing his life up again. Does that sound ridiculous? Anyway, I am probably going to sit on this story for a bit to let my backstory percolate. Again, I appreciate so many helpful comments & such lively discussion. EW, I've heard that warning before and I'm wondering just how industry-wide that sentiment is. Anyone know?

Originally posted by ElectricWhite

Originally posted by ChrisW I admitted writing Gatch fanfic to a film exec at a conference I'm attending the other night, and in front of another writer. Neither of them batted an eyelash. Turns out he's also a Gatch/BOTP fan too.

While this instance seems to have turned out okay, you should still be careful who knows about your fanfic. (Please hear me out before dismissing me.) Publishing firms have a written "no fanfic" policy, and their editors will reject work from anybody they know who writes fanfic rather than risk accept something that might be reworked fanfic (no matter how well it's been reworked.) True, Fifty Shades of Gray is an exception, but it's the only exception, and publishers have come right out and said that it won't change their position on fanfic or fanfic writers.

That's one of the reasons I'm using a different pen-name for my published fiction (admittedly, self-published, but we can always hope...)

Jublke, don't feel the need to have to have these sections beta'd for these prompts. Post what you come up with when you want to. Besides, it would be fun to go back and see reread these, after you've finished the story and had it beta read as a full story rather than pieces and we can see how the story evolved.

Originally posted by ElectricWhite While this instance seems to have turned out okay, you should still be careful who knows about your fanfic. (Please hear me out before dismissing me.) Publishing firms have a written "no fanfic" policy, and their editors will reject work from anybody they know who writes fanfic rather than risk accept something that might be reworked fanfic (no matter how well it's been reworked.) True, Fifty Shades of Gray is an exception, but it's the only exception, and publishers have come right out and said that it won't change their position on fanfic or fanfic writers.

This is sad. On the brighter side, there are a few published authors out there who are not ashamed of their fanfiction pasts... Cassandra Clare has the Mortal Instruments YA series (I don't know her current attitude toward fandom, though...she was a divisive fan, to put it mildly) and Naomi Novik is a fantasy author who is REALLY involved in fandom. ChrisW- best of luck getting published. Hope to hear some good news!

It sucks that so many publishers are against fanfiction as a genre. I guess it is just another example of elitism with in the industry. Fanfiction is publishable in some situations Look at all the Star Trek and Star Wars novels. How many other fandoms have a novel series? I'm sure it is more than just those two. Look at Foe by Coetze or Mary Reilly by Valerie Martin. How many of Shakespeares works have been rewritten for more modern times? How many of his works were rewrites of someone else's work? I can understand having a separate anonymous penname, though. In this day and age, it is a smart way of protecting one's own privacy.

I have a shelf full of doctor who novels in my bedroom, what are they if not fanfic, just because they are authorized by the B.B.C.? I suppose that as fanfic becomes more popular both to readers and authors, the publishers might be forced to change their oppinions on the matter. Why ignore the genre when they could jump on the bandwagon and make money while they're at it

Originally posted by amethyst Fanfiction is publishable in some situations Look at all the Star Trek and Star Wars novels. How many other fandoms have a novel series? I'm sure it is more than just those two. How many of Shakespeares works have been rewritten for more modern times? How many of his works were rewrites of someone else's work?

Originally posted by KT1972 I have a shelf full of doctor who novels in my bedroom, what are they if not fanfic, just because they are authorized by the B.B.C.?

Ah, that's where lawyers come in! It's legally not fanfic if the owners of the copyright (Paramount, Lucasfilm, the BBC, etc.) authorize its publication. Also, reworkings of many older, "classic" pieces (such as Shakespeare, or Jane Austin) aren't considered fanfic because the pieces use "public domain" literature; nobody owns those copyrights any more, so they're free pickings for whomever wants to use them.

Originally posted by ElectricWhite

Originally posted by amethyst Fanfiction is publishable in some situations Look at all the Star Trek and Star Wars novels. How many other fandoms have a novel series? I'm sure it is more than just those two. How many of Shakespeares works have been rewritten for more modern times? How many of his works were rewrites of someone else's work?

Originally posted by KT1972 I have a shelf full of doctor who novels in my bedroom, what are they if not fanfic, just because they are authorized by the B.B.C.?

Ah, that's where lawyers come in! It's legally not fanfic if the owners of the copyright (Paramount, Lucasfilm, the BBC, etc.) authorize its publication. Also, reworkings of many older, "classic" pieces (such as Shakespeare, or Jane Austin) aren't considered fanfic because the pieces use "public domain" literature; nobody owns those copyrights any more, so they're free pickings for whomever wants to use them.

I disagree. Just because it is legal to publish such works, does not mean that it is not fanfic. Fanfictions are stories based on someone else's stories.. Theoretically, any of us, if we had the desire or the contacts could seek permission from Tatsunoko, et al, to publish our stories. We have several authors in the fandom who could do this and have a chance for success.

Originally posted by amethyst I disagree. Just because it is legal to publish such works, does not mean that it is not fanfic. Fanfictions are stories based on someone else's stories..

I'm not saying I agree with it -- I hate to think of how many talented writers have been stifled because of mainstream publishing's attitude toward fanfic. The people who make the ultimate decisions are doing it for the sake of making a quick buck for their company, not if the writer is producing anything of quality. Heck, even the largest industry magazines encourage writers to participate in fanfic groups to help hone their craft, just be sure to CYA because of the publishers' attitude. It's going to take a while, but I'm afraid that's the way things are for now. Once the current batch of executives have retired, we might get some people who are more aware of the benefits that come with publishing people who like to participate in fanfic groups.

Originally posted by ElectricWhite I'm not saying I agree with it -- I hate to think of how many talented writers have been stifled because of mainstream publishing's attitude toward fanfic. The people who make the ultimate decisions are doing it for the sake of making a quick buck for their company, not if the writer is producing anything of quality. Heck, even the largest industry magazines encourage writers to participate in fanfic groups to help hone their craft, just be sure to CYA because of the publishers' attitude. It's going to take a while, but I'm afraid that's the way things are for now. Once the current batch of executives have retired, we might get some people who are more aware of the benefits that come with publishing people who like to participate in fanfic groups.

Maybe the better way to handle it is encourage more people to self-publish, or go small press. Publishing is less and less about quality writing and more and more about marketing and licensing anyway.

Originally posted by amethyst Theoretically, any of us, if we had the desire or the contacts could seek permission from Tatsunoko, et al, to publish our stories. We have several authors in the fandom who could do this and have a chance for success.

Now there's a clever idea! Tatsunoko could put out a "best of" edited anthology of 50 of their favorite fanfics. Think about it - they could issue it as an ebook, with Springie and Boeke and some of our other Gatch artists to illustrate it. We already are a built-in fan base. Low cost to them, high profile for us, and legitimacy to our craft. They could publish the anthology about six months out from the next movie tie-in (eventually we will get one!) and everybody's happy, Off to dream in my fantasy world ...

Originally posted by clouddancer Chris very cool that you got to talk to a film exec, are you planning on writing a screen play?

I've been making a stab at it.

While this instance seems to have turned out okay, you should still be careful who knows about your fanfic. (Please hear me out before dismissing me.) Publishing firms have a written "no fanfic" policy, and their editors will reject work from anybody they know who writes fanfic rather than risk accept something that might be reworked fanfic (no matter how well it's been reworked.) True, Fifty Shades of Gray is an exception, but it's the only exception, and publishers have come right out and said that it won't change their position on fanfic or fanfic writers.

I know this exec from last year and we're on pretty good terms (the benefit of attending conferences) so I wasn't concerned. Normally I wouldn't have mentioned it at all because I know authors at the conference who are kind of hateful about fanfic. I didn't know the other writer at the table so I didn't really care of I offended her or not. *grin*

Originally posted by amethyst It sucks that so many publishers are against fanfiction as a genre. I guess it is just another example of elitism with in the industry.

I don't think all authors fall under the elitism banner. I know authors who feel truly violated when other people start using their characters. They are not fans of fanfic in general. Given that the author gave birth to the characters/world, I don't think it's quite fair to hate on all authors who don't want their stuff played with as everyone's got their own reasons. Publishers and authors both are in a difficult situation. Fanfic is in a difficult legal position so I'm sure some feel it's "dangerous" to come out in favor of it. They don't have to defend their copyright like a trademark, but I'm sure there's some who are unnerved and afraid of what might happen to trademark law through court rulings. ETA: Chris White is a pen name ...

Chris, I don't begrudge the authors. They have every right to ask their fans to respect their works, but they also need to understand that it is up to the fans to respect their wishes. My issue is with publishers who would discount a potential author because that author admittedly writes fanfic. I know many published authors who write fanfic, and many use their fanfic to promote their original works, but many do not. As far as the legal position on fanfic, it is covered by fair use, so long as the fanfic author does not take credit for the world/characters and they attempt to make no money on that. That is not just my interpretation, but comes from a lawyer, archive owner, and fanfic writer that I was acquainted with in the HP fandom, and I don't think copyright laws have changed drastically in the last decade or so.

Yeah discounting an author at all because they write fanfic is a bit much. Trying to think of the logic, maybe the publisher is afraid the author's work will end up having something too close to something else and get them sued? Or it could just be snobbery. In reality, it's probably a mix of the two.

My vote is for snobbery. Authors may have an original take on an idea, but not even Shakespeare had original literary ideas. As for being sued, people will sue not because they are justified, but because they think most corporations would rather settle and not have negative press and a lengthy court battle, and sadly they are right.

Originally posted by ChrisW I know this exec from last year and we're on pretty good terms (the benefit of attending conferences) so I wasn't concerned. Normally I wouldn't have mentioned it at all because I know authors at the conference who are kind of hateful about fanfic. I didn't know the other writer at the table so I didn't really care of I offended her or not. *grin*

I'm glad to know that this was a "safe" situation for you. (I know there's a better word than "safe", but I can't think of it right now.) Even though the publishing industry executives' attitudes toward fanfic are simply asinine, it has to be dealt with until things change. I really didn't like the thought of your career taking damage from a moment of being open about writing habits that you enjoy.

I only mentioned it to him because he turned out to be a Gatch/BOTP fanboy.

Originally posted by Lunulet Cassandra Clare has the Mortal Instruments YA series (I don't know her current attitude toward fandom, though...she was a divisive fan, to put it mildly)

I read her Draco Trilogy, back when, and I recall she took down it and all her Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings fanfiction when she got her book deal to publish Mortal Instruments -though that could partly have been because of all the flak she'd caught when it came out how much she was plagiarizing from other novels and TV shows in her fanfiction. I haven't read any of her original fiction, but I've heard it said that her character "Jace" is basically her version of Draco, with a different name and setting. The fact that she published her original fiction under the same name she used for her fanfiction (with a slight spelling alteration) sure suggests she was hoping to carry over her fanfiction fanbase to her original stuff. Jane Lebak got a novella published, "The Boys Upstairs," which is a reworking of her "Father Joe" Gatch fanfiction, but that's the only case I can think of where Gatch/BOTP was reworked to be original fiction.

Originally posted by lborgia88

Originally posted by Lunulet Cassandra Clare has the Mortal Instruments YA series (I don't know her current attitude toward fandom, though...she was a divisive fan, to put it mildly)

I read her Draco Trilogy, back when, and I recall she took down it and all her Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings fanfiction when she got her book deal to publish Mortal Instruments -though that could partly have been because of all the flak she'd caught when it came out how much she was plagiarizing from other novels and TV shows in her fanfiction. I haven't read any of her original fiction, but I've heard it said that her character "Jace" is basically her version of Draco, with a different name and setting. The fact that she published her original fiction under the same name she used for her fanfiction (with a slight spelling alteration) sure suggests she was hoping to carry over her fanfiction fanbase to her original stuff. Jane Lebak got a novella published, "The Boys Upstairs," which is a reworking of her "Father Joe" Gatch fanfiction, but that's the only case I can think of where Gatch/BOTP was reworked to be original fiction.

I vaguely remember Cassandra Clare. I can't remember if she published at Sycophant Hex or not, but I didn't work to much with the archives that Draco-oriented stories would go. The difference could be fandom size. The HP fandom is huge with at least a dozen fanfiction sites. Our fandom is very small in comparison, and likely less noticeable unless someone was specifically looking for it.

Originally posted by lborgia88 Jane Lebak got a novella published, "The Boys Upstairs," which is a reworking of her "Father Joe" Gatch fanfiction, but that's the only case I can think of where Gatch/BOTP was reworked to be original fiction.

I don't know all the details but apparently there was some Japanese Ken/Joe yaoi fanfiction that was turned into detective novels with slight name changes for the 2 main characters...

Originally posted by amethyst I vaguely remember Cassandra Clare. I can't remember if she published at Sycophant Hex or not, but I didn't work to much with the archives that Draco-oriented stories would go. The difference could be fandom size. The HP fandom is huge with at least a dozen fanfiction sites. Our fandom is very small in comparison, and likely less noticeable unless someone was specifically looking for it.

If I recall, her stuff was at fictionalley's "Schnoogle" section, before she took it all down. What had earlier gotten her into some hot water, and gotten her fics pulled from fanfiction.net was that she was using lines lifted from shows like "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Blackadder," and very nearly copying verbatim bits from a then-out-of-print fantasy novel called "The Secret Country." Yes, I remember, back when I was reading lots of HP fanfics, just how many of them there were, and at so many different sites. No one could ever have been able to read them all! That's probably, I suppose, why sites tended to be focused on certain characters and/or pairings -made it a little easier to find what you were most interested in.

Originally posted by Transmute Jun

Originally posted by lborgia88 Jane Lebak got a novella published, "The Boys Upstairs," which is a reworking of her "Father Joe" Gatch fanfiction, but that's the only case I can think of where Gatch/BOTP was reworked to be original fiction.

I don't know all the details but apparently there was some Japanese Ken/Joe yaoi fanfiction that was turned into detective novels with slight name changes for the 2 main characters...

Detective novels, interesting. I suppose that fics where the Team isn't battling Katse and Galactor, invading secret bases and flying around in the God Phoenix or being at the Crescent Coral Base, like they are in nearly all the episodes, can be changed into original fiction a lot more easily by mostly just changing names. From what I can tell, that seems to have been the case with "Fifty Shades of Grey" -it was on fanfiction.net as Twilight fanfiction, but didn't actually have any vampires in it or much of anything from the Twilight series except two characters named "Edward" and "Bella" -names now changed.

Originally posted by lborgia88 If I recall, her stuff was at fictionalley's "Schnoogle" section, before she took it all down. What had earlier gotten her into some hot water, and gotten her fics pulled from fanfiction.net was that she was using lines lifted from shows like "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Blackadder," and very nearly copying verbatim bits from a then-out-of-print fantasy novel called "The Secret Country."

*nod* I remember that. I was in HP slash fandom on Livejournal in those days, so Cassie Claire was never very far away. And then there was Laptop Wank -- where she claimed her laptop was stolen and asked her fans to send cash through Paypal. And have you read the Ms. Scribe Saga? It's really fascinating...great fandom history. Also makes you go: Early HP fandom, man. I MISS IT. Sort of.

Originally posted by Lunulet

Originally posted by lborgia88 If I recall, her stuff was at fictionalley's "Schnoogle" section, before she took it all down. What had earlier gotten her into some hot water, and gotten her fics pulled from fanfiction.net was that she was using lines lifted from shows like "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Blackadder," and very nearly copying verbatim bits from a then-out-of-print fantasy novel called "The Secret Country."

*nod* I remember that. I was in HP slash fandom on Livejournal in those days, so Cassie Claire was never very far away. And then there was Laptop Wank -- where she claimed her laptop was stolen and asked her fans to send cash through Paypal. And have you read the Ms. Scribe Saga? It's really fascinating...great fandom history. Also makes you go: Early HP fandom, man. I MISS IT. Sort of.

I remember that now. I don't remember a lot about the goings on at Schnoogle, but I know the webmistress was a lawyer, and she was pretty good about notifying other sites about plagiarism. If she had anything at SH we likely took it down.