Have you ever looked at your series of fanfic and realized that you have been writing about the same theme over and over again without realizing it? This happened to me again recently and I wondered if anyone else here had experienced the same thing. The first time it happened - and I caught it - was after I had finished Leaders Never Fail, which deals with Mark failing a subject at school. And then I realized - I had Princess struggling with school in Uppercut and Jason had failed a subject and Tiny had dropped out of school entirely in Senior Composition. And I wondered then, as I do now, how could I have missed such a big overarching theme in my work as a whole? Clearly, failing at school was a big worry of mine - and curious, too, because I started writing fanfic right before I started graduate school - but I had no idea at the time. Any unintended themes in your fanfics?

Right now I can't think of unintended themes in mine. Maybe because I took such a long break from fanfic, I'm kind of building up a new body of work so I don't have enough to look at for patterns. However, I can say that this type of thing tends to go beyond fanfic writing. Look back at the themes you were writing about back when you were younger, and then look at the themes you're writing about today. I know that I find a lot of similarities. I write better today, but the same things still intrigue me. Sometimes I realized I was writing about them and sometimes I had no idea. Alas I can't think of the unintended ones there either. Just woke up for a nap. Brain hasn't quite kicked back in.

I think you could be right, Jublke, I've been going over all mine in my head and I thought the obvious one would be the Ken/Jun/Joe triangle going on, certainly true of two of them, (Counting the Three's Company series as one) and "A Night to Remember" too. Even "Lifestyle Choices" had some briefly at the end, but it wasn't a strong theme throughout. Then I see another one, unintended pregnancies. Only two fics of mine don't include anyone getting accidentaly pregnant, I have WIP which involves babies, and that's also true of the Bradbury's Jar contributions too.... What on earth is that saying about me?

KT: Perhaps motherhood is a topic you find endlessly fascinating? I can tell you about common themes of mine, without the unintended bit. Mind control, power play (in terms of who has power over one another and how that works for both parties), guy/guy stuff ... for the first two, no wonder so much of my stuff is dark. Heh. These same things go for my original fiction too.

It's not merely the motherhood part that's so bewildering though, more the "unintended" part that threw me. I don't think even one story has a single planned,"Lets try for a child" conversation in it, and "A night to Remember" has four of them! I'm not saying they're all unwanted, mind! That's a totally different issue.

KT - Thank you! That's exactly what I'm talking about. It's the kind of realization that makes you go "What? How did I miss that?" I just realized that I now have several stories where I have Princess wind up with someone other than Mark. Why? I have no idea. I'm not a fan girl enough of the pairing to be a Mark-Princess shipper, but it's certainly my default assumption. Or, at least, I thought it was. Chris - I'll have to think about themes that I am aware of in my writing. I certainly write a lot of angst & hand-wringing. Keeping secrets is one that intrigues me, as does struggling with and admitting (or hiding) weakness.

Well the main theme I can say that is consistent in my fics is that the Swan always ends up with the Eagle or the Condor... although to be fair, there are some fics where romance isn't an issue and so it never comes up. I've tried very hard to expand my comfort zone and write about all different kinds of characters, but in the end if I just fall back on 'gut instinct' I'll usually write from the perspective of the 'big three'. I also seem to have a lot of 'oh poor me' Condor stories, particularly those where Joe is a cyborg...

Perfect ... hahah .... I've actually been called out on it before and advised to take a step back and get out of my rut. Angst, rebellion, pregnancies ... I think those were my hits. I stepped back as per the advice, but I don't think I've exactly changed my path. Most of mine are relationship orientated with Princess as the central figure. ...or smut ... but I dunno if that actually counts... SJ

Like so many others, I can't find any unintentional themes in my fanfic. (Yes, I'm leaving myself wide open for someone to come back with, "Hey, doofus, what do you call all the stories about ______?") No, I'm not counting the wheelchair-bound as a theme, since all but one of my fics with a disabled character are also self-insertion. And I'm not counting the perv-bot Zark...that's intentional (strange, but intentional!) So, if anybody can find a theme running through my fic, please let me know!

I think what intrigues me is the idea that we reveal unintentional things about ourselves every time we put our work out there. Is there a way to become more self-aware about it? Like SJ pointed out, a good friend or beta-reader might be one way to learn more about ourselves through our writing. I guess it just makes me a little self-conscious - does that make sense? I'm wondering what other things I'm telling the world without realizing it. I think a lot before I put stuff up, but maybe I'm not considering the right things .. Bah ... I'm in a dark contemplative place today. Hope this post makes sense ...

This is an interesting topic, Jublke, and one that I have been contending with for the past few months as I have been attempting to type in all of my handwritten work into my computer (over twelve full notebooks written in smudgy pencil, plus other pages besides!) and I did notice several themes in my stories -- death, abandonment, children coping with divorce and/or loss of a parent. Though I have not been writing fanfic for very long, given who I like to write, I guess it's not surprising that those are often the very themes that are at the heart of my fanfic stories well. I also noticed that I tend to write mysteries and stories with a fantasy or magical element to them. I don't start out with the thought in mind ... it just sort of ... happens ... like magic ... Our subconscious minds work in mysterious ways, and things can come out without our meaning it to ... perhaps it is like dreaming ... and now that you are aware of such things, maybe you will be able to see the pattern for yourself as well in your writing. Is it the themes that you keep writing that are bothering you ... or is it because you want to write different themes and can't seem to be able to? If you just want to expand your writing style, then pick out a theme that you wouldn't normally write (action instead of romance or comedy if you always write dark) and just write up something as an exercise. No one else need see it, but it may help to give you a feel for writing in a different way.

All of my stories are very Jun-centric...I think it is because I can identify with Jun the most. And...of course...it is because the shipper in me will find any reason to get Jun and Ken (or Mark and Princess) together! Also, there is a lot of angst and hurt/ comfort in my writing. Again, I think it is because I am trying to get the Eagle and Swan together! I think Ken/ Jun (and Mark/ Princess) was once described as the captain of the football team and the head cheerleader dating. I always wanted to be one of those popular cheerleaders- so maybe that's the fascination for me. That and the fact that Ken (and Joe) are drawn so drop dead gorgeous! *swoon* However, I do love Condor/ Swan stories, too- they are just harder to write! More like the head cheerleader and the king "bad ass" of the school getting together- ha! I see a lot of jealousy in my fics- and it's funny, because I don't get jealous easily. I'm pretty laid back. Oh, and I forgot to throw in silly...I have a few that are done out of pure silliness...because my sense of humor can get completely ridiculous (and I have a lot of prodding from those of you who shall remain nameless- but you KNOW who you are!)

Originally posted by jublke I just realized that I now have several stories where I have Princess wind up with someone other than Mark. Why? I have no idea. I'm not a fan girl enough of the pairing to be a Mark-Princess shipper, but it's certainly my default assumption. Or, at least, I thought it was.

Most of mine are that way. I like the challenge of pairing Princess with someone other than Mark. So I guess that's not unintended. As for unintended themes, I can't think of any at the moment, but I tend to focus more on plot and let the reader determine the them, so I guess all of mine are unintended.

Originally posted by amethyst... but I tend to focus more on plot and let the reader determine the them, so I guess all of mine are unintended.

This made me think back to the days when I was just getting into education. I became so discouraged with the quality of Young Adult fiction (especially Newberry and Scholastic Award winners!) because the authors were so focused on "theme" (or, rather, the message they wanted to convey) that all the other elements of the story suffered greatly.* So, it seems to me that the theme naturally comes through without the author focusing on it, if care is taken in crafting an overall good story. * I'm not dismissing the importance of conveying a message. It's just that nobody cares about a social issue if it's presented in a story that's utter crap!

Originally posted by ElectricWhite So, it seems to me that the theme naturally comes through without the author focusing on it, if care is taken in crafting an overall good story.

Definitely, I believe that if the writer can do three things strong: Character, Plot, and Setting, then imagery, motiff, and theme will naturally develop in the story. Does that mean we should we ignore those? Not at all, but the first focus should be the characters and the story. When those are strong, then we can go back and look and bring the others out a bit more, or change if something unwanted emerged. When I think about people who put them and imagery and motiff above character and plot, I think of Lit Snobs who set out to write "Literary Fiction", sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But you are definitely right EW:

Originally posted by ElectricWhite Nobody cares about a social issue if it's presented in a story that's utter crap!

KT: Well, I think the only way for Jun/Princess to get pregnant unless the war is over is unplanned, unless you maneuver it so she has a child before the war started. It would be interesting to see whether you did the same thing with original fiction or for other fandoms. jublke: Maybe you just like to buck trends. Or Princess/Mark to you maybe feels more like young hero worship/infatuation than love. Also, sometimes I think fiction writing is like running naked down the street. I know when I first started posting the Raven stuff I was going "these people are going to think I'm nuts." Then I started reading my way through gatchfanfic and Bird Go and realized I was among good company. *grin* Ultimately, we write about what speaks to us. I try really hard not to self-censor. TJ: Given that canon has a lot of "oh poor me" with Joe as a cyborg, I think that's natural, hehe. SJ: Sometimes ruts are fun, though! And smut always counts. RIGirl: I think we're drawn to certain characters because their themes speak to ours ... Springie: Maybe the jealousy thing is letting your inner drama queen out to play. Amethyst: It might be a question of semantics. It's through the plot and characters that we reveal theme, after all. EW: Some writers forget that a theme doesn't have to be delivered with a mallet.

This is a great topic and I love reading the various responses. Considering I have only finished writing 3 stories, I am not really sure if I have become "stuck" in a theme as yet. But I do some times wonder if, in my untold stories, I hurt/abuse Mark a lot more than is necessary. It seams like every time I think of a new story Mark is getting hurt either physically or emotionally. I know angst is enjoyable, to read and write, but has anyone ever become tired of seeing the same person in an angsty situation time after time?

Originally posted by clouddancer This is a great topic and I love reading the various responses. Considering I have only finished writing 3 stories, I am not really sure if I have become "stuck" in a theme as yet. But I do some times wonder if, in my untold stories, I hurt/abuse Mark a lot more than is necessary. It seams like every time I think of a new story Mark is getting hurt either physically or emotionally. I know angst is enjoyable, to read and write, but has anyone ever become tired of seeing the same person in an angsty situation time after time?

Define "necessary." *grin* Actually, I've wondered the same thing about myself. Then I remind himself that he tries to take on all of the biggest risks as Commander, so he's going to get himself into nasty situations. And as Commander, he's a bigger target. But that doesn't mean the others aren't as brave and don't take risks that will get them in deep trouble. Jason in particular.

Actually Chris, "necessary" is probably not the correct word but I do abuse him a lot more than any of the others - leaving the others to angst over him. You make some good points though, which I had thought about - being Commander and as such feeling he needs to "protect" the others, taking risks, or putting himself into risky situations so the others don't have to. And as Commander he would certainly be the biggest, or one of the biggest, focuses for Zoltar's rage. And that concept is what I am playing with at the moment - Zoltar targeting Mark during missions, instead of the rest of the team, hoping that when he brings their Commander down, or kills him, the others will be demoralized enough to leave Earth defenseless.

Originally posted by clouddancer You make some good points though, which I had thought about - being Commander and as such feeling he needs to "protect" the others, taking risks, or putting himself into risky situations so the others don't have to. And as Commander he would certainly be the biggest, or one of the biggest, focuses for Zoltar's rage. And that concept is what I am playing with at the moment - Zoltar targeting Mark during missions, instead of the rest of the team, hoping that when he brings their Commander down, or kills him, the others will be demoralized enough to leave Earth defenseless.

I look forward to reading that. It's one of the issues I played with in Raven, too. Though in Gatchaman, since Ken's the only one with that type of title, he's I think even more of a focus. Given that I tend to focus on Ken/Mark so much I'm having fun with a project that he's hardly in at all. And I've enjoyed doing some of the weekly prompts from Jinpei's POV for a change of pace. I do think it's important to stretch my wings. But if there's particular things that grab me, it's just natural that I'm going to gravitate toward them. I've been using Tiny's POV in something recently. Not a ton, but some. Jun/Princess is one I keep finding I avoid. Which means at some point I'm going to have to force myself into it. I suppose if Club Aphrodite goes as I expect, I'll do that when it's her turn to show up on the island.

I too find Jun/Princess's POV one that I can not get into. I have started one story from Tiny's POV and really enjoy writing from it, but I think he is a character similar to myself that I wonder if I am putting too much of myself into the story and not enough of Tiny. Keyop is another character I have never tried to write from, mostly because I did not like his stuttering and "child-like" personality - so much so that I actually tried killing him off in my AU - then, eventually I brought him back, but I have made changes to him. He no longer blurbles and beeps, but he does have a stutter - with some letter sounds - and I have also aged him. He is only a year younger than Mark and two years younger than Jason.

Originally posted by clouddancer I too find Jun/Princess's POV one that I can not get into.

That makes me feel less weird.

I have started one story from Tiny's POV and really enjoy writing from it, but I think he is a character similar to myself that I wonder if I am putting too much of myself into the story and not enough of Tiny.

A good beta will tell you.

Keyop is another character I have never tried to write from, mostly because I did not like his stuttering and "child-like" personality - so much so that I actually tried killing him off in my AU - then, eventually I brought him back, but I have made changes to him. He no longer blurbles and beeps, but he does have a stutter - with some letter sounds - and I have also aged him. He is only a year younger than Mark and two years younger than Jason.

In one project I'm kind of having fun with Keyop. I can't stand his mangled speech (I would have LOVED to be in the production meeting where they decided to do that) but I've adopted my co-author's habit of representing all the burble stuff with ellipses, so I just think in terms of how what he says might be broken up. I suppose I can deal with Jinpei/Keyop as is because my inner child lives a bit too close to the surface at times. I'm still pondering what my "unintended themes" are. I also tend to be plot/character driven, so I don't go in with a theme per se, but there's the ones I'm pretty aware of as I go and then there's the ones that sneak up on me. As themes go I think redemption is one I tend to gravitate toward. That's probably one reason I go a lot toward angst and hurt/comfort. Apparently I'm feeling chatty/introspective today ...

Originally posted by ChrisW

Originally posted by clouddancerI have started one story from Tiny's POV and really enjoy writing from it, but I think he is a character similar to myself that I wonder if I am putting too much of myself into the story and not enough of Tiny.

A good beta will tell you.

Good point - unfortunately my Tiny story maybe another one I have lost due to my computer problems. Hopefully I can find someone who can locate files lost on a disk. If not, I may have lost most of the last 2 years of my life - or so it feels anyways.

I suppose I can deal with Jinpei/Keyop as is because my inner child lives a bit too close to the surface at times.

Maybe that is what my problem is .... I deal with too many spoiled children during the day so do not feel like writing them when I get home. That being said, I would love to write a story of the team working in a school and let them deal with some of the "events/situations" I have had to deal with.

I should be ashamed of myself. As soon as I read

Originally posted by clouddancer... I would love to write a story of the team working in a school and let them deal with some of the "events/situations" I have had to deal with.

...my first thought was "land the Fiery Phoenix on the school!" I should be very ashamed of myself!

Originally posted by ElectricWhite

Originally posted by clouddancer... I would love to write a story of the team working in a school and let them deal with some of the "events/situations" I have had to deal with.

...my first thought was "land the Fiery Phoenix on the school!"

I've known a few students (may have even been one myself) that would love that idea. That aside, that actually sounds like an interesting premise and good idea for an after the war story, CD. I think you should start it, even if it is just for cathartic writing. If there is a story there, it will come out.

Originally posted by ElectricWhite I should be ashamed of myself. As soon as I read

Originally posted by clouddancerOriginally posted by clouddancer... I would love to write a story of the team working in a school and let them deal with some of the "events/situations" I have had to deal with.

...my first thought was "land the Fiery Phoenix on the school!" I should be very ashamed of myself!

Don't be ashamed EW ... in my imagination, you don't know how many times Jason has taken bird missiles and shot them at the school. Or happened to let loose a fist full of Shurikens at a student.

Originally posted by amethystThat aside, that actually sounds like an interesting premise and good idea for an after the war story, CD. I think you should start it, even if it is just for cathartic writing. If there is a story there, it will come out.

At first I imagined this happening during a mission - the team going undercover at a school (my school) but since then it has played out differently. In my AU there are 6 G-Force teams, since there are so many not every team is called out on every mission. This gives the Prime team - Blue team - more time off between missions to do more normal things - to have a normal life. I also combined this "time off" with the team helping to train others to become agents/G-members at the Foundation. From there the idea extended to the team gong out into the community to help less fortunate families. Since my school is based in an area where underprivileged families and children live, I imagined the team or Mark anyways (as I said he is always at the center of my stories) volunteering at a school in a similar situation. I can imagine Mark showing up, much like the college police academy trainees do at our school - to work with individual students, or small groups of students - to encourage them to do something better with their lives - to start respecting themselves and their self worth so that they can begin making something of their life. But I could also see him being completely blown away at seeing half the things I have experienced as a teacher in this school. As you can tell Amethyst, the story is brewing around in my head - some day I just need to get it down on paper (or onto the computer)

Originally posted by Springie (and I have a lot of prodding from those of you who shall remain nameless- but you KNOW who you are!)

Oh, I don't know what that's like... not at all!

CD, it sounds very interesting. I can't wait to read it! I can imagine what you've seen. I taught at an urban high school. Half of my sophomores and most of my freshman never passed a class through middle school. The district had no retention policy, so students where just passed on until they went to jail. Those that could afford it, went to private schools or out of the district, and those that didn't suffered in missilery with the teachers.

CD, it sounds like you have a terrific story idea! I hope you go with this and explore it further.

Originally posted by clouddancer Good point - unfortunately my Tiny story maybe another one I have lost due to my computer problems. Hopefully I can find someone who can locate files lost on a disk. If not, I may have lost most of the last 2 years of my life - or so it feels anyways.

Yikes! Oh man, hopefully you can find those files. Hard drive failures suck.

Maybe that is what my problem is .... I deal with too many spoiled children during the day so do not feel like writing them when I get home. That being said, I would love to write a story of the team working in a school and let them deal with some of the "events/situations" I have had to deal with.

I bet that's what it is. I don't have kids or really deal with them, so it's way different for me.

Originally posted by jublke I think what intrigues me is the idea that we reveal unintentional things about ourselves every time we put our work out there.

This is food for thought... I seem to have a fair number of romances/relationships that end in separation, failure or death. What isn't in my stories might be telling too -pretty much no one gets married or gets pregnant. Heh, I'm not sure I want to think about this too much! Rather suggests I'm a pessimist with commitment issues and/or indecisiveness.

Originally posted by lborgia88 This is food for thought... I seem to have a fair number of romances/relationships that end in separation, failure or death. What isn't in my stories might be telling too -pretty much no one gets married or gets pregnant. Heh, I'm not sure I want to think about this too much! Rather suggests I'm a pessimist with commitment issues and/or indecisiveness.

Well, you're in good company, then. Based on my fanfic, I'm an insecure drama queen with a fear of failure.

Originally posted by ChrisW

Originally posted by clouddancer Good point - unfortunately my Tiny story maybe another one I have lost due to my computer problems. Hopefully I can find someone who can locate files lost on a disk. If not, I may have lost most of the last 2 years of my life - or so it feels anyways.

Yikes! Oh man, hopefully you can find those files. Hard drive failures suck.

Maybe that is what my problem is .... I deal with too many spoiled children during the day so do not feel like writing them when I get home. That being said, I would love to write a story of the team working in a school and let them deal with some of the "events/situations" I have had to deal with.

I bet that's what it is. I don't have kids or really deal with them, so it's way different for me.

I highly recommend Carbonite. I had gotten it to protect my book writing and when my computer died almost 2 years ago, Carbonite was a Godsend. I got everything back. Was one of the best $59 I ever spent.

I had noticed a theme in my books - my main characters are always orphans because of my horrid family life as a child. I really hadn't paid much attention until you mentioned it, Julie, regarding my fanfics. I hate seeing Jason alone, so I always tend to give him a girlfriend or the possibility of a relationship.

Originally posted by Becky Rock I had noticed a theme in my books - my main characters are always orphans because of my horrid family life as a child. I really had paid much attention until you mentioned it, Julie, regarding my fanfics. I hate seeing Jason alone, so I always tend to give him a girlfriend or the possibility of a relationship.

Come to think of it I often have at least 1 parent being an awful jerk (though it doesn't come out in the fanfic since most of the characters are orphans). Jason's a good guy. He deserves someone.

Originally posted by Becky Rock I highly recommend Carbonite. I had gotten it to protect my book writing and when my computer died almost 2 years ago, Carbonite was a Godsend. I got everything back. Was one of the best $59 I ever spent.

Does this - program? - work on Mac computers? I suspect not, but it would not harm anything by asking. Maybe I can do a google search to find my answer.

I don't know, CD. Just look it up. Since it is online rather than downloaded to your computer, I would think it would work on any system.

I see ... it sounds like Carbonite is something to use BEFORE you loose your files. A back up location rather than saving things to a hard disk. I thought/hoped it might be something to use to recover the files I had already lost. Unless you tell me it is for restoring missing files on hard drives.

Originally posted by Becky Rock I had noticed a theme in my books - my main characters are always orphans because of my horrid family life as a child.

I'm the only one in my family who hasn't been divorced -I suspect some of my issues stem from too much observation of dysfunctional marriages.

I did a bit of soul-searching on this...and it seems that my serious, angsty fics (I include here the ones written as a teenager and not published) have an issue with authority. Which is usually why I take Jason's side. "Traitors' Pass" (which is almost finished, BTW, finally!) actually developed out of a story I wrote when I was thirteen or fourteen and is a good example of this. But then...I discovered that I can write comedy. And smut. And I discovered that I definitely enjoy seeing Jason in non-angsty situations, and preferably in semi-clothed poses So what can I say? I have authority issues but I droooooool over well-toned bods And another thing I discovered through my recent "Anderson-Sarah" ficlets -- I love exploring the emotional difficulties of today's professionals who find it difficult to bond...

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Originally posted by Daniella T but I droooooool over well-toned bods

Why, Daniella, I had no idea! No idea whatsoever!

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Originally posted by clouddancer Unfortunately I do not seem to have the mind capable of doing such a thing, I take things at face value as well as try to be as clear as possible when I explain things. That means I have difficulties writing Mark's conversation, I only know he is "being sneaky" again. Maybe sometime when I plan to write something like that I will drop you a line.

CD, try writing those conversations backwards, or break them into pieces with what the truth is, what Mark wants people to believe, and then what Mark actually says. Break it down, like you would lesson plans, and then build it back up.

I agree with you, too, Green ... there's nothing I love more than to start out a story that everyone thinks is going to go one way, then the turn it on its ear. From where I sit, it always seems like I'm not being sneaky enough ... but half the fun is in the trying! I'm also like you, CD, in that I intend to take people's word at face value, but in stories, I love to play with words and think about what the characters say and how they react ... sometimes it's almost like playing a game of chess.

EW -- see, I finally revealed my Condor addiction to the world! I would also like to be able to be more "sneaky" in the conversations in my fics -- I'm totally addicted to detective stories (along with being addicted to the Condor) and I appreciate twists and turns in fics -- will take Amethyst's advice also!

Originally posted by amethyst

Originally posted by clouddancer Unfortunately I do not seem to have the mind capable of doing such a thing, I take things at face value as well as try to be as clear as possible when I explain things. That means I have difficulties writing Mark's conversation, I only know he is "being sneaky" again. Maybe sometime when I plan to write something like that I will drop you a line.

CD, try writing those conversations backwards, or break them into pieces with what the truth is, what Mark wants people to believe, and then what Mark actually says. Break it down, like you would lesson plans, and then build it back up.

Maybe, if I ever try writing a scene like that I will try your suggestion Amethyst. RIgirl - I was never any good at chess but I can see how the analogy might apply. I have tried being sneaky in my stories but so far I have not been successful people have known what I was trying to keep hidden right away. I am just no good at doing it. I do not have a "poker" face and when ever I try to tell a "lie" people can read it. I am one of those people who knows if I were to try to getting away with something I would be the one to get caught.

Originally posted by clouddancer I see ... it sounds like Carbonite is something to use BEFORE you loose your files. A back up location rather than saving things to a hard disk. I thought/hoped it might be something to use to recover the files I had already lost. Unless you tell me it is for restoring missing files on hard drives.

Yes, it is a back-up location. It saves everything on a daily basis, so you can retrieve it if your computer goes haywire.

Originally posted by clouddancer Unfortunately I do not seem to have the mind capable of doing such a thing, I take things at face value as well as try to be as clear as possible when I explain things.

That is because you are such a natural teacher!!!!!

Originally posted by Transmute Jun

Originally posted by clouddancer Unfortunately I do not seem to have the mind capable of doing such a thing, I take things at face value as well as try to be as clear as possible when I explain things.

That is because you are such a natural teacher!!!!!

Thank you TJ for the vote of confidence. Unfortunately that tendency to take things at face value is what has gotten me hurt - usually emotionally - so many times. I tend to trust people rather and what they are telling me, rather than being warry of them.

CD, from knowing you, I'd say that you are very wary, which likely stems from being hurt in the past. However I'm glad that you've been able to trust a bit more and find new friends in this fandom.

I tend to take things literally and get mad if that fact is made fun of. Words mean things and shouldn't be said unless they're meant. Is that like taking things at face value? My DH says there are times when it makes me humor-challenged.

Originally posted by Becky Rock Is that like taking things at face value?

I am not sure Becky, we maybe talking about the same thing but using different words. What I meant by "face value" is to accept someone or something as it appears. Believing that the way things appear is the way they really are and the big thing I do is not thinking about what else it could mean. Maybe this is the problem with the way I was taught - to believe in everything people tell me. Where as these days I am trying to teach children to THINK about what they are being told: in the media, in books and when someone tells them something. they need to analyze what they feel, hear and see and how it affects them.

Originally posted by Becky Rock I tend to take things literally and get mad if that fact is made fun of. Words mean things and shouldn't be said unless they're meant. Is that like taking things at face value?

I can be pretty literal too. It particularly bites me with poorly-written instructions.

I always get upset when I discover that someone has been dishonest with me. Lying to spare my feelings doesn't bother me so much, but blatant lies or lies for the sake of lying set my teeth on edge. I tend to be honest to a fault and I expect others to be the same way, even when experience has taught me otherwise. Come to think of it, that's probably why I like Jason so much - he just calls it like he sees it. I can't even get into Mark's head if I think of him as being deliberately untruthful. I have to see him as sparing someone's feelings, protecting them, protecting the galaxy.

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Becky and CW, you've reminded me of a story from my family's history, if you'll indulge me: Shortly after my mom had moved back to her hometown (Dad had just put in to retire from the army, so he was still stationed in Virginia), she stopped having her period. She was afraid she had a tumor. (She was 38 at the time.) She hadn't found a doctor yet, so my grandmother recommended someone who had a reputation for being really good. The problem: Mom grew up with this guy. She wasn't comfortable with someone who knew her so well from her school days -- all her likes and dislikes, the sense of humor she had, etc. -- knowing her on such an intimate level. It took a lot of needling on Grandma's part, but Mom finally went to see him. He ran some tests and then called her to his office when the results came back. "Well," he said, "it's a tumor." "Okay." Mom said, doing a good job of keeping her composure, "When do you want me to go to the hospital to get it out?" "In about six months." "What? What kind of freaky tumor are we talking about, here?!?" "The kind with two arms and two legs..." For some reason, she never could remember that he had a dry sense of humor and was one of the best at deadpanning, especially when dealing with someone as terminally literal as she was!

LOL EW! Too funny.

I'm just wondering why she didn't think of that first? I'm guessing because if something is weighing on your mind, that's always what jumps to the fore? You guys talking about taking everything literally... you are reminding me of the Amelia Bedlia stories!

Originally posted by Transmute Jun I'm just wondering why she didn't think of that first?

Well, since she was 38, Mom assumed she couldn't be pregnant. It was the 1960's, and people, as a general rule, were done having kids at that age. (I guess nobody bothered to point out that, if you're still having your period, you can still get pregnant!)

Originally posted by ElectricWhite

Originally posted by Transmute Jun I'm just wondering why she didn't think of that first?

Well, since she was 38, Mom assumed she couldn't be pregnant. It was the 1960's, and people, as a general rule, were done having kids at that age. (I guess nobody bothered to point out that, if you're still having your period, you can still get pregnant!)

Well into the '80's it was said that you can't get pregnant your first time, which is was a load of bs. Who knows what else they may have thought.

Originally posted by ElectricWhite Becky and CW, you've reminded me of a story from my family's history, if you'll indulge me: Shortly after my mom had moved back to her hometown (Dad had just put in to retire from the army, so he was still stationed in Virginia), she stopped having her period. She was afraid she had a tumor. (She was 38 at the time.) She hadn't found a doctor yet, so my grandmother recommended someone who had a reputation for being really good. The problem: Mom grew up with this guy. She wasn't comfortable with someone who knew her so well from her school days -- all her likes and dislikes, the sense of humor she had, etc. -- knowing her on such an intimate level. It took a lot of needling on Grandma's part, but Mom finally went to see him. He ran some tests and then called her to his office when the results came back. "Well," he said, "it's a tumor." "Okay." Mom said, doing a good job of keeping her composure, "When do you want me to go to the hospital to get it out?" "In about six months." "What? What kind of freaky tumor are we talking about, here?!?" "The kind with two arms and two legs..." For some reason, she never could remember that he had a dry sense of humor and was one of the best at deadpanning, especially when dealing with someone as terminally literal as she was!

EW, I would have taken it the same way your mother did. Then I would have gone to his office and ripped him a new one. I don't mind a doctor having a sense of humor, but be tactful about it.

Originally posted by Becky Rock EW, I would have taken it the same way your mother did. Then I would have gone to his office and ripped him a new one. I don't mind a doctor having a sense of humor, but be tactful about it.

I'm sure she was pretty miffed about it at first. But, by the time I was old enough to hear the story, she was getting a good laugh out of it herself. (Plus, good old Doctor Bob never struck me as the type who'd do that to just anybody; just about anybody who grew up with Mom knew her better than she knew herself!)

Originally posted by ElectricWhite

Originally posted by Transmute Jun I'm just wondering why she didn't think of that first?

Well, since she was 38, Mom assumed she couldn't be pregnant. It was the 1960's, and people, as a general rule, were done having kids at that age. (I guess nobody bothered to point out that, if you're still having your period, you can still get pregnant!)

At 42, I'm inclined to think my window of opportunity for that has come and gone, but then, my great grandmother had my grandmother in 1911, when she was 43. Keeps me careful!

As long as you're not through menopause, your window is open!

True. My older sister had her "tubes tied" a couple years ago -she's not taking any chances.

Originally posted by lborgia88

Originally posted by ElectricWhite

Originally posted by Transmute Jun I'm just wondering why she didn't think of that first?

Well, since she was 38, Mom assumed she couldn't be pregnant. It was the 1960's, and people, as a general rule, were done having kids at that age. (I guess nobody bothered to point out that, if you're still having your period, you can still get pregnant!)

At 42, I'm inclined to think my window of opportunity for that has come and gone, but then, my great grandmother had my grandmother in 1911, when she was 43. Keeps me careful!

My sister had her daughter at 42...! My aunt was told (by a doctor!) she was going through menopause at 36... early onset is common in her family... a regular blood test to see if the HRT was working revealed a somewhat surprising situation... She was five months pregnant.

Originally posted by lborgia88

Originally posted by ElectricWhite

Originally posted by Transmute Jun I'm just wondering why she didn't think of that first?

Well, since she was 38, Mom assumed she couldn't be pregnant. It was the 1960's, and people, as a general rule, were done having kids at that age. (I guess nobody bothered to point out that, if you're still having your period, you can still get pregnant!)

At 42, I'm inclined to think my window of opportunity for that has come and gone, but then, my great grandmother had my grandmother in 1911, when she was 43. Keeps me careful!

When my niece got pregnant with her third son at age 33, she couldn't figure out why everyone started talking to her as though she was a total idiot after she said that she thought she was too old to have any more babies. Then the family went through the list: my mom at 38, an aunt at 43, a cousin at 45...

Great story, EW! I do like a sense of humour in doctors, I don't think he was being an a** about it. Still, I guess it depends on how serious his look was when he told her about the tumour... ETA: he sounds like a good poker player too...

Whether by accident or planning, more and more women are having kids in their 40s. Medical science has made it a bit safer, but I wouldn't want to be having a child graduating from high school when I'm in my 60s.

Originally posted by Becky Rock Medical science has made it a bit safer, but I wouldn't want to be having a child graduating from high school when I'm in my 60s.

And in my case, the BF is 58 -so he'd have a kid in university while he was pushing 80!

Nature played a really bad trick on men by making them fertile pretty much their entire lives.

Originally posted by lborgia88

Originally posted by Becky Rock Medical science has made it a bit safer, but I wouldn't want to be having a child graduating from high school when I'm in my 60s.

And in my case, the BF is 58 -so he'd have a kid in university while he was pushing 80!

My husband turns 50 this year, one way or another we are done. A friend of mine who was born on the exact same day I was, just had her third. Her first two are teenagers. I just could not imagine starting over at that age. Maybe if one or two had been born while the mother was in the early 20's and then again in mid-30's. But then, I'm one of the few moms that is looking forward to my kids going to university and gaining independence.

Originally posted by amethyst But then, I'm one of the few moms that is looking forward to my kids going to university and gaining independence.

My parents were very much that way -being the youngest, they practically shoved me out the nest! They wanted to be done.

Worse news: the older the mother, the greater the risk of the child having Down's Syndrome. Older father increases the risk for autism.

Yeah, but in defense of older parents, we are more patient ... and tired. I was 40 when my youngest was born - I was so relieved when she was born healthy. My husband works with statistics - if we had totally gone by the math, she wouldn't be here.

Every child is a blessing, whether planned or not. The way society works now, I'm glad that medical science allows women to safely bear children through their 30s and even into their 40s. It gives women the freedom to establish a career before they become mothers, giving them more options afterward.

Originally posted by UnpublishedWriter Worse news: the older the mother, the greater the risk of the child having Down's Syndrome. Older father increases the risk for autism.

That's is true for Down's, but the autism risk is minimal. Less than 1.5% However it is 5% for any parent who already has one autistic child. Which means I beat the odds. My oldest has an autism diagnosis. He was born when I was 23 and my husband was 30. We waited four years to have our second and our daughter 18 months younger than him, I was 29 and DH was 37. Neither of our younger two show a strong link to Autism. I think we will eventually learn that Autism is genetic. IMHO the reason this has not been done yet is Autism is a spectrum disorder and those with mild symptoms or characteristics may go completely undiagnosed. I'm sure there are many adults wondering around that would qualify for an HFA/Asperger's Syndrome diagnosis walking around in the world without clue, knowing they are different, but not knowing why. Why the increased diagnosis: Education, people are more knowledgeable now and less afraid of mental health issues than they were 20, 30, 50 years ago; more children are being diagnosed because of stricter standards set for how children must be. I know, as I look at my oldest and every time I have to fill out paper work for him detailing the how this condition affects him, I wonder about myself, my brother, my cousins, my father. Could we have all been HFA, but learned to deal with it because times were different and schools didn't expect parents to run out and get psychological or psychiatric help whenever a child does not fit into societies neat little box?

Originally posted by UnpublishedWriter Worse news: the older the mother, the greater the risk of the child having Down's Syndrome. Older father increases the risk for autism.

That's true, but it can happen with any pregnancy. We have two sets of friends whose first sons were born with Down's Syndrom. The mothers were in their mid to late twenties at the time. I have only the one son and when I hit forty with no other in sight, I got my tubes tied. I wasn't taking any chances.

Originally posted by Becky Rock I hit forty with no other in sight, I got my tubes tied. I wasn't taking any chances.

I had mine done at 29 when I had my last. However, it isn't 100%, though it is closer now than it was 20 years ago. On of hubby's cousins supposedly got pregnant after having her tubes tied, either they didn't do it properly or they healed. She never had the kid, and denies it happened. So either it was a mistake from the source, which I doubt, or she took care of it and had the procedure again.

Love this thread, it's a very insightful and interesting topic! One thing I can say I've found in my fics is that the main character always winds up being orphaned and having no real blood family. Sometimes they're raised by very distant family or are on their own from a young age. It probably stems from the fact my parents split when I was little. I had to learn how to do a lot of things for myself (cook, etc) early on. Also, KT mentioned pregnancies....my characters *never* get pregnant! LOL. Probably because I never wanted children myself!

Ever notice that most Disney main characters have only one parent? I rarely have pregnancy in mine, too, and probably for the same reason. Mind you, my tendency to put 2 guys together skews the results in my case. The only time I've ever written "mpreg" (male pregnancy) was for an off the cuff goofing around competition where we were dared to try to write it seriously. That was a toughie!

Originally posted by ChrisW Ever notice that most Disney main characters have only one parent?

Oh crap, I never realized that! (And I never saw many Disney movies as a kid--I think only Cinderella.)

Originally posted by ChrisW I rarely have pregnancy in mine, too, and probably for the same reason.

Yeah, other people's kids are ok for short bursts since they go home with their folks. And the funniest thing is that usually, really little kids (like 5 or so) tend to love me! Weird!

Originally posted by ChrisW Mind you, my tendency to put 2 guys together skews the results in my case.

I can see where that might present a problem!

Originally posted by ChrisW The only time I've ever written "mpreg" (male pregnancy) was for an off the cuff goofing around competition where we were dared to try to write it seriously. That was a toughie!

I wouldn't even know where to start with that kind of challenge! LOL.

You have to just kind of let go of reality and develop a love for major pseudo-science or magic, hehe.

No doubt !