Good heavens. I started to write a story on impulse yesterday and finished it about 27hrs later. I still can't believe it. (especially since I've been writing House of the Lost since the 18th of Feb - and that's not even my longest project). It will probably take longer to proofread this, but hey- at least it's finished. It's 03:28 and in about an hour and a half I'll have to go to work, so proofreading tomorrow. So how long does it take you guys to write a story? As in, a one-shot? (The one I've just finished is 6 503words long/15 pages, written in 2 bouts.) And on a similar topic, do you prepare story-lines and layouts for one-shots, or do you just follow your gut?

Honestly, it depends. Sometimes, as you say, you can get on a roll and then it goes quickly. But lately I've been writing things much longer, and so it's been taking me much longer. The fic I finished just before working on my gift exchange fic was 53,000 words, and it was the last story in a trilogy of 2 other equally long parts. That took me months to write. Then again, I'm writing 4 pages each week for the 'Just Had To Get This Out' thread, and that takes me 30-60 minutes each time.

I have not written a "one-shot" as you call it. If I understand what you are meaning. Runaway the last story I have been posting has taken me close to two years to write. Each chapter could be considered a one-shot though and it probably took me a week to write some chapters, when I got in the flow.

I agree with TJ. I've had some short stories that have taken me a few days (sometimes it is time, sometimes it is the story that takes its time), however I have one that I remember, it was my first short story and just over 5,000 words. I got the inspiration and started writing it in my head on the way to dinner in Dixon (about an hour and a half to two hours from where I live). The next day I sat down and literally just typed it out in about 4 or 5 hours. I spent the next few days editing and getting the story beta read. I've been reading Ray Bradbury's essay collection Zen in the Art of Writing and in one essay he described his process for writing short stories: Starting on Monday, he'd write the first draft. Then each day he'd write the next draft. On Saturday, he'd mail the final draft off for publication. I haven't seen yet what he did on Sundays

Originally posted by Victoria So how long does it take you guys to write a story? As in, a one-shot? (The one I've just finished is 6 503words long/15 pages, written in 2 bouts.)

I can't really say how long it takes me to write a fic of any length, because there's no consistency to how many days in a week I might have time (or no time) to work on a fic. But if I didn't have anything else that I had to do on a weekend and could focus, undistracted, I'm pretty sure I could do 6500 words, assuming I'd already worked out the plot.

Originally posted by Victoria And on a similar topic, do you prepare story-lines and layouts for one-shots, or do you just follow your gut?

I pretty much plan out everything I write, though the amount of detail varies, and sometimes I do change things along the way if I think of something that seems better. The ending pretty much always stays the same -how I get there can occasionally deviate from my original outline.

Most of my fics turn into books or at least novellas. It can take me years to finish one. I believe Sacrifice took me 4 years. In contrast, Blood Line only took about a year. Calm, which is one of my shortest, took about two hours. I try to write at least 200 words a night about something. On a Saturday or Sunday, if I have the time and inclination, about the most I can do because of my RA is 3000 words. I do a lot of writing in longhand in the car or at lunch at work, then type it in later.

Hello all, I depends on who I'm writing about. Gatchaman never seems to be quick. (My Puppy rewrite took long enough.) My gift exchange piece, thankfully, is moving much faster. Actually, thinking about it, I'm not a very speedy writer at all. I will say that having a co-author and deadlines speeds up the process. LUV to all.

Ah, deadlines... I have a love/hate relationship with deadlines -they always come sooner than I'd like and entail some stress, but they also make me more productive than I would be otherwise!

It is Definately hard to be a good co-writer. But I'm learning. It seems to combine all the worst of a long distance relationship.(She is in England.) With all the best of a...mind meld, I guess. You Definately learn how fragile your ego is. In this context, a deadline is like date night. If you or your piece doesn't show up, someone is getting miffed. Be well all.

I've found writing with someone else on a projects helps to keep you on track and you can boost each other up when you hit a slump.

It's also fun to have someone else to bounce ideas off of!

Yes. It is fun feeding one's thoughts through another's mind. It is amazing what comes out. Especially, when your both working towards the same goal. The other nice thing about this is what she writes all day, is the last thing I read before going to sleep at 5am. So my brain can really digest it. Conversely, what I write at night is the first thing she sees in the morning. So the 8 hour time difference really works. I just worry about giving this my all. A few of her friends have said she has NEVER written this good. I just want to give my 50%. At least. I will say I'm truly blessed to be a part of this. Only side effects are the temporary schizophrenia of the characters running through your head. Getting the scenes correct. Much luv to all

Originally posted by Dragonsbain Only side effects are the temporary schizophrenia

Temporary? That side effect is supposed to be temporary? Are you sure about that? I thought it was normal and permanent? Should I be worried? On a more serious note. I do get what your saying about the time difference. With kids and families and chores and stuff, Becky and I have about three hours on weekdays were we might get collaboration time and our time difference is only three hours. Sometimes, it is only about three hours during the week total. But we have had similar experiences, when I've been writing during the day she gets to come home from work and read what I've done, and then when she has time to write after work, I get to read what she has done after she's gone to bed while I'm still up. It's fun to have instant collaboration, but it is also nice to have time read and digest before commenting or adding. Being able to have a balance between the two works best, I think.

Amethyst I would love to have some instant collaboration. Sadly, not possible, at the present time. That is ok, though. Becky,getting each other over hurdles, is a wonderful thing. It is almost like having a dance partner. In the beginning, you both are stomping each others feet. Eventually, you get it together enough to do a Waltz. The biggest thing she had to get me over was what I call, writer's guilt. Basically, I was being way to gentle with the characters. I got over that, had too. Have a wonderful day all.

Originally posted by amethystTemporary? That side effect is supposed to be temporary? Are you sure about that? I thought it was normal and permanent? Should I be worried?

I think they have taken up permanent residence in my brain. It gets to the point sometimes where I eat, sleep and work with their voices sounding off in my head. The sleeping is not so bad, but at work it can become distracting, especially when the Condor wants to come out and play and throw a few shuriken at a couple of unruly students - or worse, use the Bird missile on the entire classroom.

Originally posted by clouddancerThe sleeping is not so bad, but at work it can become distracting, especially when the Condor wants to come out and play and throw a few shuriken at a couple of unruly students - or worse, use the Bird missile on the entire classroom.

CD when I was teaching I was writing Snape-oriented HP fanfiction. I let the hoodlums (yes most of them were hoodlums and on probation), know that he we my favorite character in the HP series.

And did that help in controlling those "hoodlums", Amethyst?

No, most of them were uncontrollable. They were in high school only because the middle school didn't want them anymore and the district did not have a middle school retention policy

CD-- you need a red button on your desk. Invisible Bird Missles. Just push it when the kids frustrate you. Thanks everyone. I'm feeling a bit better about Karen(Amy), Arthur(Rory), Alex(River) and Matt(the Doctor) running around my head doing lines. Here is a Thank You All from deep in my soul for everyone's encouragement of my writing. Without all of you I wouldn't be doing this project.

Schizophrenia? I have multiple personality syndrome. I fight with my characters in my head all the time. No, Jason, you can't kill him. But the world would be such a better place without him. I said no, Jason.

Becky

LOL, Becky! My characters don't fight with me, but I sometimes find myself writing their conversations in my head when I start drifting off...

I've done that and it ends up keeping me awake.

How many people have woken up from a beatiful, deep sleep with the perfect scene in your head? The one that you've banged your head trying to write.

For me, I've often come up with bits of dialogue or scenarios, in my mind, at night while I'm driving and it's aggravating because I can't write them down, or at least not without great risk of driving off the road. Other times, it's at the gym when I'm on the elliptical -another case where it's not so easy to write things down. I think the common factor is the temporary solitude and detachment, when my thoughts can just flow...

That has happened a number of times Dragonsbain. The shower is another place where scenes and dialogue will come to me .... (I can hear some of you smutty minds at work as I write that) .... no it is not usually smut scenes or dialogue that jumps out at me .... although there is that one great scene I had where I was in the shower WITH the Eagle, Condor and Owl. (It was a big shower.)

LOL, I have stuff come to me in the middle of the night. Occasionally it's so strong that I have to get up and write it immediately. I get ideas in the shower and the car too... pretty much anywhere I have a moment to just stop and think and not worry about other stuff.

Originally posted by clouddancer That has happened a number of times Dragonsbain. The shower is another place where scenes and dialogue will come to me .... (I can hear some of you smutty minds at work as I write that) .... no it is not usually smut scenes or dialogue that jumps out at me .... although there is that one great scene I had where I was in the shower WITH the Eagle, Condor and Owl. (It was a big shower.)

Mine is the shower, too. I can think undisturbed without endangering anyone. I sometimes mouth the scene and that freaks my husband out. Took him a long time to understand I wasn't nuts or badmouthing him.

What I hate is I'll have a scene perfect and then try to write it down and it just doesn't stay the same.

Originally posted by Becky Rock What I hate is I'll have a scene perfect and then try to write it down and it just doesn't stay the same.

But once you write it down you can play with it and make it better.

Originally posted by Becky Rock What I hate is I'll have a scene perfect and then try to write it down and it just doesn't stay the same.

My problem usually is, I will have the scene perfect and start writing it down, but while I am focusing on writing the beginning, the ending will disappear and I can't remember how to conclude the scene. this is why I have so a number of stories started but not finished. I keep hoping that the ending will return so I can finish the scene.

This is why outlines are so important. Get the ending 'on paper' before you even start writing the scene. At least then you know where you are going.

Mine is in the car. I have an old micro-cassette recorder somewhere and when I was commuting I often thought that I need to pull that out and dictate the story into it, but i never did. I do carry notebooks with me to write in for longer trips, particularly ones where my husband knows where he is going and how to get there and I don't need to focus on the road as much (he does have an awful since of direction, but is one of those people who does not do well as a passenger). I also find great OC names from watching street signs. I learned a few years ago that I am in good company as far as that goes, a place in one of my favorite short stories came from a highway sign for Salem, Oregon.

I have a travel notebook also. It never hurts to be prepared.

Originally posted by Transmute Jun This is why outlines are so important. Get the ending 'on paper' before you even start writing the scene. At least then you know where you are going.

I usually don't write outlines, I write bullets and synopsis of strategic plot points. Sometimes, well, usually, I don't even write those, but I have them in my head as starting points, mid-points, and end points. That is if I have a clear idea of where the story is going from beginning to end. Quite often, I'll get an idea and just start writing it to see if there is anything there. The more I write, the more will come to me. As the story unfolds and I see where it is going, I'll write notes to keep me on track if it is a longer story. More often then note though, I've started writing down ideas in a separate journal just for writing ideas. I write them down and they sit there as I try to organize what I'm going to write when I have time to write.

AMethyst, what you describe is what I'm doing in the Got To Get This Out thread! That's not my usual style though. I'll normally start with a detailed outline (but feel free to make changes as I go along).

Originally posted by Transmute Jun This is why outlines are so important. Get the ending 'on paper' before you even start writing the scene. At least then you know where you are going.

The problem with that is, I know where the plot is going - it is the words that are being said that go missing. And if I were to start by writing the ending conversations then I would probably forget how the conversation began.

Originally posted by Transmute Jun AMethyst, what you describe is what I'm doing in the Got To Get This Out thread! That's not my usual style though. I'll normally start with a detailed outline (but feel free to make changes as I go along).

That's my problem with detailed outlines, I'm always changing them and sometimes spend more time changing them then writing. I've found that for me, outlines work best when I'm trying to write from point B in the story to point D without skipping point C. And that usually happens when I'm stuck at point B and no where I need to get to, but don't know how, so I start brainstorming ideas and from there write out a basic outline so that I don't forget anything that I wanted to put in from my brainstorming or previous ideas. I'm starting to plan on original story, that I may need to have a more detailed outline than I usually do, mostly to help keep me focused with the story as I plan the character and what has happened to her. I'll need to do this because much of the conflict will have happened before the story takes place and the reader will see her as she works through the aftermath of it. I'm hoping to get most of the research done along with character charts, scene charts, and plots drawn up slowly over the next few weeks and I can start the actual writing in January. So the very nature of this story will require me to backtrack and approach it like I was teaching students who had never written a story before to write.

I understand what you're saying. I had the same issue with my On The Run series. So much had happened, and wasn't letting the reader in on the vast majority of it. But I wanted to be consistent and leave little references, so the first thing I actually wrote was the beginning of fic #4 (the background as to what happened before fic #1). Then when I wanted to make a vague reference to something or leave a 'clue' I had that detailed description to refer to. I think it helped everything go more smoothly, in the long run.

Isn't it amazing how we can learn to adjust our prewriting techniques to fit the needs of the planned story. When I was teaching, I did very little on the actual writing (the students did that on their own), I focused on the process, very heaving on planning and prewriting, and then editing and revising. My hope was that I could teach students the skills they need to write beyond the expected five paragraph essay of the standardized tests. That if I could teach them the process and the various prewriting and revising techniques, they'd find their own style and be able to adapt as needed for the purpose.

I think that's a good approach. One thing that's clear from this board is that everyone writes in a different way, and what works for one person might not work for another.

Yup, I even teach the read backwards approach, line by line, paragraph by paragraph; but to be honest, I can't do it except for small passages or if I'm looking for a specific error and have an idea where it is. I even warn the students, "this is something that I've heard many writers say is the only way they can catch errors, but I can't do it. I'm teaching the best I can, in case one of you can." My favorite editing technique does not always work well for students: time. I let a piece sit for a day or so before I revise and edit. If I try to do it too soon after I write, I read what I think I've written instead of what I actually wrote. I'm too self-conscious to read aloud, but I do a brief demonstration in class, along with a few suggestions for those who like the idea, but don't want others to hear: do it when no one is around, lock yourself in your room or the bathroom, go outside and sit by yourself under a tree (or in a tree). I just don't tell them that for me, it is not just reading my work aloud, but reading anything aloud. But as a parent and a teacher, I've need to get over the anything and that has left me more self-conscious about reading my work aloud, even if I am alone. I think it is my voice. I hate my voice. I sound like Sofia Coppola in Peggy Sue Got Married.

Amethyst you have my utmost respect. Those who can't do teach. It sounds like you do a fine job of it. I can't read out loud either. It ALWAYS sounds better in my head. I guess I'm the undisaplined one of this group. The only papers I wrote that used outlines and planning were when I was getting my degree. When I do the stories, no. The ideas come in fits and spurts. In order to get a good writing flow going, I have to totally obsess on the subject I'm writing about. Once I can hear the character's voices in my head then I can ease off. Now that you all know I'm crazy. Much luv.

Dragonsbain - if you are crazy, I'm being housed in the same complex as you. It's when the characters argue with me , that occasionaly gives me concern or when I feel they have taken contol of me pen. (perfect example was for the halloween picture of Joe, only time I stopped and realy though through what I was typing was when I re-write the one of him and the woman to make it more consentual) One technique I have learnt is about "stepping into their shoes" of the person you want to be like ( okay it sounds strange as I'm typing this) eg if you want to do negotiations like Donald Trump, you ask yourself "what would Trump do in this situation? how would he act? what would he say? how would he hold himself? And HayPresto you "Channel your inner Trump" Sounds strange...but... it's like putting on a hat or costume..you get to "wear" your character for a while. Just remember to take them off when your finished. As for other ways to writing..outside at night, when everyone is asleep, just me, nature, the dogs the night sky and the dark, (it's just deciphering my handwriting the next day, tried a torch, but it broke the mood)

Dragonsbain, I hear the characters in my head too... that's when I know I'm being true to the characters. If I can literally hear their voices saying things, I'm in character/canon. Amethyst, if you don't like your voice, then teaching should be a problem too. Clearly you don't mind that. Look at reading out loud as another element of that.

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Originally posted by Transmute Jun Dragonsbain, I hear the characters in my head too... that's when I know I'm being true to the characters. If I can literally hear their voices saying things, I'm in character/canon. Amethyst, if you don't like your voice, then teaching should be a problem too. Clearly you don't mind that. Look at reading out loud as another element of that.

TJ, I've gotten past reading out loud to others, it's reading out loud to myself to find my errors, that I haven't pushed to get past. I've learned other techniques. Actually, just mouthing the words and saying them silently works just as well if something isn't reading right. Must admit though, that if I can find an online teaching job, I'd be in seventh heaven. Teaching doesn't bother me so much because I know what I'm going to do, and I know what I'm going to say and I can relax focus on speaking a bit lower than is normal. What really gets me nervous is interviews, because even though I have an idea on the questions and answers, I'm not positive. Plus with students, they are going to mock their teachers (particularly teens), I've just accepted that my voice will be it, and sometimes even join in with them some times. DB, I think a lot of us hear the characters. The one that is really tricky for me is Joe and Jason, because while I prefer Jason and am more comfortable writing BotP, I'd rather hear Joe's voice, so sometimes I need to stop, focus listen, revise, and repeat until I can hear it from Jason.

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I'm glad we are able to help you, Dragonsbain. It really is amazing how much we all have in common!

Being true to the characters, it's a tricky thing. I mean, we want them to be true to their canon selves and recognizable as themselves to readers, but at the same time they're being filtered through each of our individual minds (and personalities, experiences etc.) and coming out a little differently on the other end. Just the fact that many of us have different favourite characters, or different characters we identify with the most, means we're not all perceiving or understanding the characters in the same ways. Guess that's a big part of the fun though -seeing how other people interpret them. Lord knows I'd hate to be stuck with no fics to read except my own!!

Good point LB! Plus we want to see character growth and development. To do that I think sometimes we have to take them out of canon-context to see how they'd react. It can be done by expanding canon, too. There is some challenge to taking a situation that is AU and making seem plausible within canon. Doing things like this not only allow us to see the characters grow, but see ourselves grow as writers. Above, SJ mentioned writing OCs. The fandom I wrote in before this one, had many subsects to it. The area I associated with discouraged writing OCs, there were more than enough canon characters screaming for more development. In this one there are a few, but having well developed OCs are more acceptable here then where I was previously. This has been a challenge for me as both a reader (learning the norms) and as a writer (pushing my own limits).

I think you have to be careful though. If the OC is too prominent, completely taking over the story, then is it a Gatch/BOTP fic at all? I've only had main character OCs twice (okay, one and a half times, since one was a Galactor goon, who is sort of a recognizable character) and it's been a struggle for me. You don't want to turn off the reader by ignoring the canon characters. IMHO, an OC needs to intereact sufficiently with canon characters to hold the reader's interest. No one is ever going to find your OC as interesting as you do. I've had to walk a fine line with these characters, and I'm not entirely certain I've always been successful. But I'm learning, slwoly, and that's what's important. When someone reads fanfc, there is a natural assumption that the story is about the fandom that they know and love. Otherwise, why are they reading the story? Why is it billed as fanfic rather than original fiction? Good OCs have been well-integrated into fanfic before. I can think of a few characters (notably Rick) from Cathrl's Battle AU as an example. As long as the OCs are regularly interacting with canon characters, I think it works well. Take the OCs to their own place and have them become the sole characters, and you have the recipe for a disaster. JMHO. I'd love to see more discussion on this, as it's an issue I struggle with myself.

I think all fanfic writers struggle with it and that it depends largely on the fandom as much as the writer and the story as to whether it is accepted or not. I know where I was before in the HP fandom, I saw all OCs as marysues no matter how well written they were, and unless the story was done as a spoof, I tended to avoid them. But then HP had a wealth of supporting characters to develop and play with. IMHO, BotP and Gatch do have some, but because the characters are here one episode, gone the next it allows more freedom to other choose them or create your own. It was reading the OCs in this fandom, even the ones labeled as marysues that allowed me to look past that old idea and gave me the courage to play with it a bit more than I would have in the past. You are right though that it is the canon characters that bring the reader to the story and keep them there.

My OCs have pretty much all been love interests for Joe, and my personal rule has been to kill them off or make them go away by the end of the story -which, really, is pretty true to canon!

Definitely so, LB! And you have them interacting with Joe, and they're not really in the story without him. That's the kind of OC I think works best: one that supports a canon character, and whose storyline is entangled with that main character. Amethyst, you bring up another good point: there are lots of canon 'one-episode' characters to exploit as well!

Originally posted by Transmute Jun there are lots of canon 'one-episode' characters to exploit as well!

Yes, and especially in BOTP, where they're more likely to survive the episode they're in (and to have names)! Well, not Lucy -but that's what prequels are for... You've been making use of Tyna, who'd be dead in the Gatch version. My current WIP was in large part inspired by mentions in "Tentacles from Space" of "Agent Hannah," the singer in the disco at Spaceport 5, and by "Barzok," in "Super Space Spies" -in the Gatch versions, she doesn't exist and he's dead by the episode's end.

LB, you also wrote that wonderful fic about Alan and his Devilstar fiance!!!!!

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SJ, you have made many valid points, especially where it comes down to personal preference. The way I see it is how the individual defines canon, to me, it is the entire show - characters, settings and 'extras' where an OC has to fit into. Even if not all of them are used within the fic itself. To many others, just the one aspect may be necessary to be considered fanfic. Basically though, if a person enjoys a fic, they'll read and reread it many times, if not then they perhaps won't even finish the one they start. Either way I won't lose any sleep worrying about it!

Originally posted by SJ_SwanJun She seems to break just about every rule of Mary-Sue, but is so well crafted, developed, and written that you can ignore all of those negatives and just believe that she was a member of the cast from the very beginning.

I think whenever creating an original character or using an undeveloped canon character this should be the goal. There are Mary-Sues in canon in several universes ***cough***Zark***cough***, and I'm sure that I could think of a few more outside of BotP/Gatch/Cartoon-realm if I tried. There are also canon characters that are turned Mary-Sue by writers. It is one thing to see a character grow and develop, it is another to write the character in such a manner that the character is so completely unrecognizable that it might not even be that character, physical description and name aside, or if the author inserts themselves into the character. One of the most difficult things to do in writing a character that the author identifies closely with, is to separate themselves from the character they are writing, but it is not impossible. It is also possible that even if they don't succeed, completely, only the author knows because the character is perfectly canon, reacting as the audience would see the character responding in that situation. On this last, I can speak from experience, and it might be why I had to stop writing HP fanfic. I wrote many Hermione-centric stories and there were times that I had to wonder who the bossy, bookworm, know-it-all really was. However, I don't have bushy hair (just the opposite, in fact). So maybe that helped.

SJ, you make some very interesting points.. However I think your best one is that we all prefer different things, which certainly canot be disputed! I should point out that not all OCs are related to characters or are romantically involved with them. However, it my opinion that if the OCs are not interacting regularly with the main characters, then it's not fanfic (or perhaps only marginally fanfic). Even writing in the 'universe' is marginally fanfic. For example, I could write a story about hobbits of my own creation in the Middle Earth universe, but I'm not sure many people would want to read it, or feel it was fanfic at all if it did not involve canon LOTR characters as well. People read fanfiction because they LOVE the fandom... which naturally makes it disappointing to most readers if the characters from that fandom hardly make an appearance. Now you have stated that you have a different opinion, and that's fair enough. That being said, if someone is writing a story that is heavily OC-centric, then what they're really writing is original fiction, which certainly takes a lot more creativity than fanfiction! I to people who write original fiction, but that should not be billed as fanfic... kind of a 'bait and switch' to readers from the fandom. By the same token, the audience for such original fiction should hardly be limited to the members of a single fandom. so it's actually more advantageous for the author to promote their work as original fiction. FWIW, the Savage Redhead makes my skin crawl. Her Mary-Sue nature really bothers me, and I can't get past that. Of course, perhaps that's my own personal foible, that Mary Sues bother me intensely. Certainly others are entitled to different opinions, and clearly they have them, else no one would be reading Emby's work. On the other side of the Mary Sue spectrum, I love Cricket's over the top Mary Sue Story fic, where it is billed as such. The main character is so horribly Mary Sue that it's just laughable, and I certainly enjoy the comedic aspect of that one. So I guess the conclusion is, there are Mary Sues and OCs to suit us all... but not the same ones for everyone.

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Amethyst! Practice and constructive criticism is really what allows you to home your craft, whether it's writing or anything else. As for confidence, it's something that can be difficult to acquire, but I agree that if it can be obtained, it can make the writing flow that much more easily.

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Originally posted by amethyst If we practice perfectly, then we cannot make mistakes, if we do not make mistakes, we cannot learn; if we do not learn, we do not grow.

Great point, Amethyst! If you can practice 'perfectly', then why do you need to practice at all? I agree that we all make mistakes, and we can all learn from them. However the point is well-taken that you can't learn from your mistakes if you are not made aware of them.

Originally posted by amethyst if we do not make mistakes, we cannot learn; (if we do not learn, we do not grow.)

The first part sounds exactly like what I keep telling my students. They need to make mistakes to learn, but also to teach ME what I need to teach THEM so they can learn. (Please make those spelling mistakes in your writing - that tells me I have not spent long enough teaching the vowel sounds etc.) The second part of what you wrote Amethyst is what I believe to be true - for myself anyways. And it is not so much that I have to make a mistake, when I teach a lesson, to learn. But by not doing something perfectly I grow, because I have to sit down and evaluate what it is that went wrong and how I could improve it for next time. Obviously, when I am say this I am talking as a teacher. I can not speak for other areas, events or activities people participate in or work in, because I do not feel comfortable talking about something I do not have a great deal of knowledge about.

Originally posted by Transmute Jun I agree that we all make mistakes, and we can all learn from them. However the point is well-taken that you can't learn from your mistakes if you are not made aware of them.

Or do not acknowledge that they exist - which leads back to my previous post.

No one is perfect. Practice can make you better and you can learn from those more experienced. You have to keep an open mind. Criticism goes both ways. It can build you up or cut you down. It's what you decide to do with it that counts.

Originally posted by Becky Rock Criticism goes both ways. It can build you up or cut you down.

Very true. And I think a lot of that has to do with the manner in which it is given. Oftentimes criticism is better received if it is a private thing between the reviewer and reviewee (no matter what kind of work is under review). No one likes to be humiliated by harsh criticism in a public forum. Additionally, there is the way in which it is worded or delivered which tells the reviewee whether the person reviewing is attempting to help, or mock.

I think sometimes it is also the relationship between the person doing the critiquing (a much friendlier term than criticism) and the one receiving it. I had a teacher who was always laughing, joking, and be-bopping around the classroom. He was hilarious. He pointed out the most severe mistakes (he called them argghs! after the Snoopy comic strip), and he made it fun. He did this to everyone, and I was able to learn from this and not take it personally; though I do know that many did not take this well and did not like his style. The other teacher in that subject, gave direct point-driven criticism, that was often done one-on-one, but not always, and she never held back. The difference to me was not just style in delivery, but the first teacher pointed out only objective errors (he was an old beatnik), the second also point out subjective (she was a former editor for a publisher). I preferred the other teachers style, but also liked that just because we may not agree doesn't mean that something is right or wrong.

Originally posted by amethyst but also liked that just because we may not agree doesn't mean that something is right or wrong.

Very true, especially in writing! There is so much that is subjective in writing, especially in fiction, that it's good to keep that in mind. I often like to have 2 or 3 people beta my stories for just that reason: they all come back with different comments!

Originally posted by Transmute Jun they all come back with different comments!

Exactly, and even if those comments don't work with what you are trying to do at that moment, you can use them in the future.