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I love the idea. Kind of like a BotP take on Dean Koontz's Demon Seed. Not sure if I can commit to co-writing, I've got one that I'm trying to get started, but I'd be happy to help with ideas and such.

it really depends on how much AI you intend to give Zark. a self-aware machine (which Zark does appear to be) would also by definition be able to re-write his own code, albeit within certain parameters maybe - like Isaac's Robot Laws. as I see, in your draft definitions, you can't have Zark have a "family" and "the only home its ever known" and "affection for G-Force" along with "not programmed for love, hate, anger". If you say Zark has no emotions, being a robot, then he can't "smile if he could" and would have no urge to do so. He can't angst about putting things in his report because it reflects badly on the team - he's a robot. He writes the report he's supposed to write based on what he observes. Any comments he makes that show an "emotion" are Eliza responses, and mean absolutely nothing to his actual actions and internal processes. in this kind of dark fic, you would probably write something about conflicting program code lines causing unintended and possibly hazardarous results - like Zark interpreting the need to keep the team's public image lily-white and pristine into him sending out clean-up crews to "silence" any observers that might have witnessed Mark and Jason arguing. however if he does have emotion and has emotional attachments, then the fic could possibly revolve around Zark getting into a "stalking" or "obsessive" mindset about one or all of the team, like a jealous lover. when you say dark fic, you might wanna consider just which subset of dark interests you the most.

Originally posted by lyon it really depends on how much AI you intend to give Zark. a self-aware machine (which Zark does appear to be) would also by definition be able to re-write his own code, albeit within certain parameters maybe - like Isaac's Robot Laws. as I see, in your draft definitions, you can't have Zark have a "family" and "the only home its ever known" and "affection for G-Force" along with "not programmed for love, hate, anger". If you say Zark has no emotions, being a robot, then he can't "smile if he could" and would have no urge to do so. He can't angst about putting things in his report because it reflects badly on the team - he's a robot. He writes the report he's supposed to write based on what he observes. Any comments he makes that show an "emotion" are Eliza responses, and mean absolutely nothing to his actual actions and internal processes.

'Eliza responses'?

in this kind of dark fic, you would probably write something about conflicting program code lines causing unintended and possibly hazardarous results - like Zark interpreting the need to keep the team's public image lily-white and pristine into him sending out clean-up crews to "silence" any observers that might have witnessed Mark and Jason arguing.

I don't know enough about computers to talk about code. But if I make it Zark's POV, I might be able to demonstrate the programming glitches. Zark is convinced it doesn't have emotions, yet it demonstrates all the evidence of having the equivalent of emotions. Maybe because its definition of emotion is inaccurate.

however if he does have emotion and has emotional attachments, then the fic could possibly revolve around Zark getting into a "stalking" or "obsessive" mindset about one or all of the team, like a jealous lover.

Or a merging of both, as one becomes the other over time. I'd been leaning towards the 'clean-up crew' idea. Zark cannot alter the team's records, but it will alter other records. At some point, G-Force finds the shrine built to them. When they find it depends on the plot.

when you say dark fic, you might wanna consider just which subset of dark interests you the most.

Working on that. I like the idea that Zark's obsessive interest in G-Force could lead to stalker-ish behavior designed to maintain the illusion of G-Force's perfection. I need a plot. And a beta. Could you help me with finding the holes in my plot?

Originally posted by amethyst I love the idea. Kind of like a BotP take on Dean Koontz's Demon Seed. Not sure if I can commit to co-writing, I've got one that I'm trying to get started, but I'd be happy to help with ideas and such.

Not quite going to the 'AI wants to be a parent' limit. I haven't read the book, but I believe that was part of the plot.

Not a parent, a lover. The computer did as Lyon pointed out above and rewrote his code to become sentient (no technical coding came up, just enough jargon to be believable and keep it understandable to non-techies). His goal was to create a body to transfer his conscious into and then become the lover. It was really good and really creepy. I keep hearing the computer talk with Zark's voice during my read of it. But, you don't have to go that far. Just the stalking and controlling angle would be enough for a suffieciently dark story.

Zark darkfics can be a lot of fun. THere have only been 2 I know of written - both are archived at Gatchafanfic and for the life of me I can't remember what they're called or who the author is. (I can check when I get home). I like the idea of Zark stalking one or more of the team members.

There was the one by Jacque Koh (and its sequel). Zark 'helped' the team deal with their trauma by blocking their memories of killing people and being assaulted. Heh, the 'stalking' thing is strongly implied in canon by Zark talking about how he watches the team (and pays special attention to Princess). I was sort of inspired by the way that Zark kept gushing about G-Force at the end of every episode. I could imagine a little shrine with figures of each of the team members. Maybe the sneakers in the ready room belong to one of the team members. A start on a collection of 'sacred items'.

Just something I noticed... you're referring to Zark as 'it', while in canon he is quite clearly referred to as 'he'. Additionally his interactions with Susan strongly suggest that Zark is 'he' and Susan is 'she'. If you're planning on sticking with canon, I think you should acknowledge that somehow. Also, in canon, Zark *quite clearly* has emotions and often talks about how he feels.

There was the one by Jacque Koh (and its sequel). Zark 'helped' the team deal with their trauma by blocking their memories of killing people and being assaulted.

That's it! SHe actually did a follow up to that one where the team does work out what happened - and it's aftermath.

Evangilina's What Really Happened After Episode 85 is also a good one.

Originally posted by Transmute Jun Just something I noticed... you're referring to Zark as 'it', while in canon he is quite clearly referred to as 'he'. Additionally his interactions with Susan strongly suggest that Zark is 'he' and Susan is 'she'. If you're planning on sticking with canon, I think you should acknowledge that somehow. Also, in canon, Zark *quite clearly* has emotions and often talks about how he feels.

Yes, and Zark also talks about not being programmed for emotion a few times. Very confusing. I was going for 'it' to emphasize the contradictions in Zark. But yes, they did have that creepy phone sex thing with Zark and Susan. Hmph. Must stir the marinade a little more. Unless someone is feeling warped and wants to come along for the ride....

I'm plenty warped, but really can't commit to much more than being a good sounding board at the moment.

Eliza was a program written back in the '60s and was one of the first experiments in having a computer mimic human behaviour. It's crude by today's standards, but it's still weirdly effective and interactive. One of the better known variants was a "psychoanalyst" program that would echo responses back to your input, designed to lead you into thinking you were talking to a real person. A sample Eliza-set analytic response might be something like: You: I hate my mother. Eliza: Why do you hate your mother? You: Because she hit me when I was a child. Eliza: Why did your mother hit you? You: Because I was bad? I did bad things. Eliza: So being bad made your mother hit you. You: Yeah. I guess. It's all so stupid now. I don't even know why I'm talking to you. Eliza: You know why you're talking to me. Tell me about being bad. And so on and so on. Eliza-type programs now are infinitely more complex, with more tree-decision branches in their conversational patterns, but at the center of things it's still reading off a list of variable-reply things hard-coded in the system. So if Zark is a robot and the robot is expressing emotion, that does NOT necessarily mean that the machine FEELS anything. It could simply be putting out the phrases it's been programmed to express in order to make it appear human to anybody talking to it. A machine that expresses a human response pattern will be in a better position to fulfill certain duties - like having that human "trust" it and give it more data to work with. Zark could easily be programmed to pull out responses in the G-Force team based on their stress levels. If Mark says a certain phrase, Zark replies over the comm with a noise of sympathy -- but deep in Central, a command is given to scramble a "clean team" to the location to do some dastardly thing. The idea of having Zark be an Eliza-program that perhaps learns to re-write his own code to BE emotional instead of simulate it sounds pretty interesting. I mean, look what happened to Data when he got his emotion chip? Lore took him to the cleaners! -------------------------------------------------- PS. That's assuming you're wanting to work with Zark as a robotic machine through and through. If you're starting from the standpoint of Zark having all the emotions of a gushy fifteen year old, then throw all of the above in the trash