I put this out in a discussion on verb tense, and it was suggested that I make a challenge of it. Choose the team incarnation you are most familiar with (Gatch (I, II, or F), BotP, GoS, Eagle Riders). Write a short story (500 to 2000 words) in narrative past tense, third person. Then write the story in present tense, and either first person or second person. Finally rewrite once more in a future tense and the PoV that you did not do in the second writing. If your not comfortable playing with both tense and PoV at the same time, pick one either tense or PoV to play with. Post your three responses together in this thread.

I like this challenge. May take me a few days, but I'll be putting a response in!! Amethyst - you may want to go over to Gatchfanfic and list it as a challenge there so when we upload to there, we can put it with the challenge.

Will do. Most likely tomorrow. I'm working on my response now as I check updates here.

This is most interesting, Amethyst! I'd like to have a go, when I don't know! Just one small, maybe silly, question: referring to the third requirement, am I right in assuming that you're requesting the same event that has to be written in the past tense, that is an event that has already taken place, to be written as if it were still going to happen in the future? I'm warning you ... you have to wear some eye-shields when, and if, you'll read mine!!!!

It sounds like a good challenge, lots can be learned from it.

Originally posted by gatchamarie This is most interesting, Amethyst! I'd like to have a go, when I don't know! Just one small, maybe silly, question: referring to the third requirement, am I right in assuming that you're requesting the same event that has to be written in the past tense, that is an event that has already taken place, to be written as if it were still going to happen in the future? I'm warning you ... you have to wear some eye-shields when, and if, you'll read mine!!!!

Yes, basically the same story from three different times (has happened, is happening, and will happen) and three different points of view (he/she, I, you). Don't worry about us needing eye-shields, this is meant to be fun and to help us explore other tenses and points of view from what we traditionally write in. I've never written in present or future for story writing, and have only done drabbles with second person. As Maddy suggested, I will likely register this at gatchfanfic, but no posting requirements for there, it's only if you feel comfortable sharing it (same goes for here, too really). It would be nice to read what everyone does, but even just playing with it and leaving it on the computer helps us as writers.

Thanks for the clarification, Amethyst! I hope I won't misinterpret something! But I'll surely try it for fun as I always tend to look at writing fanfic! As to writing in the present or future tense, I have only used those tenses when writing poetry ... it will surely be a challenge for me!

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Great work, Amethyst!! You've still managed to keep the emotional intesity throughout each perspective. Tell me - whch one do you prefer?

Originally posted by Madilayn Great work, Amethyst!! You've still managed to keep the emotional intesity throughout each perspective. Tell me - whch one do you prefer?

Either of the first two. The third one just seemed too clunky and awkward.

The third one doesn't work as a story, because it would be difficult to tell a story like that in future tense. Maybe if it were a plan, or a dream, or something like that... but it doesn't wrok for me. The second one, however, is perfect. This really should be a first person POV.

Well said about the third one! The second I liked (I do like first person!), but wasn't sure about the present tense. It was the first time I've written it it, and I've seen some stories that are outstanding, many others are disaster (though that could well be the case of the author not considering time as a setting and how to use it).

Great write-ups, Amethyst! You've done a wonderful job with the three of them, but I agree that the second is the best! It does make more impact as it's speaking exactly Jason's mind from his own perspective. I'm liking how this challenge is enabling us to see how much certain tenses may differ the final effect and the message in a write-up! You know ... it may not make so much sense, but I'm seeing it like when a singer, with a certain, particular voice, sings better those songs which are more appropriate to his/her tonality. Choosing the right tense may be the same to deliver emotions more properly!

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OH Amethyst and Gatchamarie!! What a treat! Amethyst- I agree that first person was more powerful...and I love the way you showed Jason's romantic side. Reading your fic has turned me into a Condor girl!! I love the protectiveness he feels for Princess...and the angstiness of it all! I'd love to see more added to this! Gatchamarie- SWOON! Ken visiting his mother's grave on Mother's Day is so lovely, and I can totally imagine Jun giving him the flowers for her grave and being there for him when he needs her. I love the way he is able to cry on her shoulder. The best part for me is that he is looking forward to Jun being a mother...this was such a sweet read!!! I liked first person best in your fic, too...

Thanks, Springie! In fact, I liked the first person fic best too!

Thanks Springie! Marie, great job on yours! I think the first person worked best or yours, too. Although, the future worked much better for your idea than it did for mine. It gives the impression that not only is this something that has happened before, but will happen again. The one thing that got left out of our tense discussion was setting. Time is an important element in setting. One way to establish time is through the narrative either giving the reader explicit or implicit clues. Another way is through tense. If plot is action, the tense tells when the action takes place.

I definitely like the first person version best for Marie as well! Marie, your words and feelings are so moving... and I was imagining your picture of Ken thinking of his mother as I read the fic. You really have painted a tangible image of Ken's grief, and the way he is coming to terms with it.

Two very poignant stories, amethyst and gatchamarie. amethyst, I like that Jason thinks "That's a start." If he doesn't want Princess to "settle for crumbs", then he can't either. gatchamarie, I like how you show that Ken's dead mother is not truly gone even as the cycle of life has moved on -as it must- and how her son will, in his turn, bring motherhood to Jun. I agree, "first person present" really does have an immediacy and intimacy that the more detached, objective "third person limited" does not. I also agree that "second person future" is a difficult tense to work with. It might work better for me if the narrator -the person saying "you"- isn't an anonymous, generic narrator, but rather a character the reader knows -ie. in gatchamarie's story, it's the spirit of Ken's dead father.

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Hahaha! Very cute, TJ! I like the way you used Jinpei's POV for the third one!

Well my thought was that it would be more interesting to switch POVs as I switched tenses. If I were actually going to write something to post, I would probably write the same scene from different POVs, but include different information.

Nice work TJ! The future tense definitely works better in the first person and with a shorter vignette, almost as if he is envisioning the scene will play out. I noticed you ducked out on the second person PoV, but I think that's all right. It's probably one of those that second person would not have worked well with. I'd really like to see you flush this out as you had stated: the same scene from the six different views. What do they notice that is different from the others.

LOL... maybe! I totally forgot about second person, but your'e right, it wouldn't have worked, because who is the second person? Hmmm... maybe it could work in a directional sense, if they were planning something, and someone was giving instructions : you'll do this, I'll do that. I'm not sure there's enough meat to this story to do it from 6 different POVs. But I may think of something like that... In the meantime, you can check out a fic that Springie, GG and I wrote a long time ago. It's called Snowbound. We wrote the entire fic from three different POVs: Swan, Eagle and Condor. It was quite the blast!

TJ ... your ficlet is so sweet! I can imagine their joy in giving Hakase a birthday surprise and their face when they see him eat the cake which Jun had baked!!! I find that the future tense does not work that well especially when there's dialogue involved! Dialogue must seem, and is, spontaneous so it's difficult to tell what has to be said specifically in the future. I therefore think that a fic written in the future tense must, most probably be, a narrative one. It must also have that mystic feel ... just like LB has said mentioning Ken's father speaking to Ken. In my case I also found it difficult to switch between tenses when basing upon a specific one. In my write-up I had to think, and be careful, about what had happened a long time ago, what happened recently, and what was happening in the present or will happen in the future! I attribute this to lack of experience but I think it is really tricky, especially in this language!

I agree that future tense doesn't really work in most situations, Marie. Still, it is interesting to write, because it's something that isn't usually done, so it stretches you a bit, which was the whole point of this exercise, wasn't it?

You're right, TJ! The bigger the challenge, the better! It's really interesting to see every possible outcome from one piece of writing using different tenses! That's why I've found this challenge as being a rather rewarding one! And one from which a lot can be learned, especially in my case!

Marie, you've done wonderfully! And I love your ideas as well. I'd love to see you write some small ficlets, exploring certain ideas, without getting so overwhelmed by a longer fic!

Thanks, TJ! Hearing this from you is most rewarding! I agree ... if ever I'll try to write something else in the future, I'll definitely go for shorter fics!

Marie, between teaching and admining, I can usually spot an ESL writer, especially those whose first language is latin based. However, I've seen very few of the tell-tale signs (the biggest are verb conjugation, preposition usage, and phrasing) in your writing. What I do see is easily corrected with a beta and editing. I've noticed you have a tendency to create or invent words based on others that you know. This isn't a bad thing, it's how we get knew words into our language. The beta should tell you if the word works or point you to the word that you were looking for. Please! Please, don't let this discourage you from writing in English. I think most everyone here appreciates how difficult it can be and appreciates your work even more for it.

Thanks for your sincere words, Amethyst! As I always say, what I do I do with pleasure and for my natural instinct to learn more about things, especially things that interest me! I like to express myself in writing, maybe not so easily for me in English, but, at least, I can communicate what I really think with whom can share my own love ... that is Gatchaman when talking about here! The tendency of creating and inventing words based on others comes from my writing a lot in the Italian language. This language does allow such creations, especially when adjectives are concerned, ... and it's true ... I do keep this tendency running with me! I also notice myself that I even take words in Italian (sometimes being pronounced almost as some words in English) and adapt them in English as I'm so used to write using these certain words, which sometimes do not have the same meaning either! Italian is a very descriptive language which vocabulary is enhanced every single day. At least, that's what they've taught us when I studied it at the advanced level. That's why it enables this facility to create new, descriptive words! I've found good teachers here and a good job is not a good one if it's not corrected! ... and I'm having so much fun learning and contributing the best I can!

Originally posted by gatchamarie Thanks, TJ! Hearing this from you is most rewarding! I agree ... if ever I'll try to write something else in the future, I'll definitely go for shorter fics!

I'm not saying that you always should write shorter fics, Marie. It's just that I know your long one was very overwhelming for you, and took a lot out of you. I think if you write a few shorter ones, you'll become more comfortable tackling a larger fic later on, and it will be easier for you. That's all.

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What an intriguing story, LB! I love this glimpse into Joe's psyche, and how difficult it is for him to hide what he's going through... and hiding it on so many levels. This is a fascinating insight. Oh yeah, and you did a great job with the tenses too.

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I agree. And again, the first and third person are the strongest. The present tense works very well with this story, too.

You know, I think we almost need to turn this into a subchallenge: write a story that works well in future tense!

That could be challenging. I think the best way to accomplish that might be the dreaded tense shift. Have a character start out planning something and shift to future as he/she envisions the plans and how they come together. Just as the second person needs a focal point for narration, I think the future tense needs a focal point; it's the ambiguity, not the tense or PoV that weaken these stories.

You make a good point there, Amethyst. It's something to ponder. I'll have to think about how I might do this.

On thinking about it, it could also be why some first person or present tense stories fail. If a writer doesn't have a firm grasp on the characters voice or the action, it doesn't give the reader enough to believe the story.

Originally posted by Transmute Jun Oh yeah, and you did a great job with the tenses too.

I'm realizing now that I cheated on the third part -it's not future tense, second person. It's present tense, second person. I guess future tense is so hard, I subconsciously avoided it! I like the way you switched to Jinpei's POV for your third part, TJ. If I'd been more creative, I guess I could have tried Ken's POV.

LB ... that's a great story you've written! You've nailed Joe's personality and you managed to introduce the right dosage of angst at the end to bring us thinking! I also found the first person version the strongest in your case, together with that in the third person.

Originally posted by Transmute Jun

Originally posted by gatchamarie Thanks, TJ! Hearing this from you is most rewarding! I agree ... if ever I'll try to write something else in the future, I'll definitely go for shorter fics!

I'm not saying that you always should write shorter fics, Marie. It's just that I know your long one was very overwhelming for you, and took a lot out of you. I think if you write a few shorter ones, you'll become more comfortable tackling a larger fic later on, and it will be easier for you. That's all.

I did understand you, TJ, and no one better than you can tell how much my first, long fic had been quite overwhelming for me to tackle! I admit that my ambition had been a bit great but I've always wanted to write that sequel and you know how things go ... when you start writing it's hard to stop sometimes! ... that's me! I hereby thank you again for your precious help and for how much I've learnt from you ... and keep on learning! You know I treasure all your suggestoins! I just think that I'll stick with shorter write-ups for now ... I cannot undertake any long projects at the moment!

Originally posted by gatchamarie I also found the first person version the strongest in your case, together with that in the third person.

Thanks! The "first person" version is the one that I wrote first, then I changed it to third person and second person. I admit, as well, that I was trying for something that I thought would work best in first person, as third person seems to have become my default tense and I'm trying to shake myself up a bit.

I'm going to cheat. This will have the first two, but not the third. For what I wrote, too much emotional distance. Starting on the next box.

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An interesting perspective on that episode. Well done! I think I like the first one better... I'm not sure why, though.

I agree well done, UW. I can see why you didn't attempt to do the third part though. It would have been tough to get right and probably a nightmare to read. Second person wouldn't have been bad, but future would have been horrendous.

I did try it, and it was difficult to do. So many uses of 'will' and 'shall', and the emotional distance was immense. (I know some readers loathe RI. Anyone feel at least a little sympathy for this version?) Everyone did pretty well with their contributions.

Originally posted by UnpublishedWriter (I know some readers loathe RI. Anyone feel at least a little sympathy for this version?)

Yes, actually. Getting inside his head here, in third person or first person, you've made it such that he's aware he's being insensitive and then that he's humilating Ken, but that he's in a desperate hurry to save the world (and Ken) and facing Ken is so difficult he can't bear to linger, so he's trying to block his emotions and "act on impulse." The fact that he knows here that he's doing a crappy job of his final farewell to Ken but just doesn't have the time or the emotional wherewithal to get it right does put him in a better light than the original episode itself.

Great write-up, UW! You did manage to extract more sympathy for RI from me! The way you explained his emotions has made his final actions seem more plausible ... to tell the truth, I never have convicted him entirely for his overall behaviour, me always searching for a good reason behind a person's actions, but you managed to explain more deeply what may have been lying behind my partial sense of empathy towards this character. For some reason, I liked the first version better also and I do agree that the future tense might not have been so adequate in your case. Good job!

Originally posted by lborgia88 Yes, actually. Getting inside his head here, in third person or first person, you've made it such that he's aware he's being insensitive and then that he's humilating Ken, but that he's in a desperate hurry to save the world (and Ken) and facing Ken is so difficult he can't bear to linger, so he's trying to block his emotions and "act on impulse." The fact that he knows here that he's doing a crappy job of his final farewell to Ken but just doesn't have the time or the emotional wherewithal to get it right does put him in a better light than the original episode itself.

And I might even buy that argument, if he hasn't been such an arrogant ass every other time we saw him in the show (when he wasn't in a hurry and wasn't about to die).