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Maddy I hear what you are saying. If given a choice, it would be hard for me to choose, but unconsciously I do choose. When I sit to write, I go to the BotP characters first. I go to the Gatch characters if I don't think something will work in BotP. When I go to read fanfiction, I usually look for BotP stories first. I know the characters and the universe better. Plus I still have a hard time with the understanding of the characters as they change in the sequels, most of what I know of them comes from these discussions and fanfiction -- not really the way to know the characters. I do however love seeing the way the show was supposed to be seen, particularly since much of what was cut, was from my favorite character.

It's funny, but even though I grew up with BotP, I prefer Gatchaman... But, then again, having my experience in Japan, maybe that's why I feel more connected to the characters - I get them and their behaviour... For the most part, I still don't get Joe slapping Jun in The Birdmissile of Bitterness. And no Zark. And, I'm sorry, Joe's baritone is just so much more drool inducing than Jason's voice purrrrrr but in saying that, I'm not completely immune to it either... *sigh*

Posted by AmethystWhen I sit to write, I go to the BotP characters first. I go to the Gatch characters if I don't think something will work in BotP

Exactly the same for me, Amethyst!

Yeah, but you've gotten your stories finished. Most of mine are still in varying stages of writing on my computer or in a notebook somewhere.

I would never have learned of the existence of Gatchaman or gone about acquiring all the ADV episodes a few years ago, were it not for all the happy memories I had of watching Battle of the Planets in the late 70s. But my memories of it were, by late 2006, very faded and patchy. And I loved watching Gatchaman! Lately, I've been making an effort to watch more Battle of the Planets episodes and really try to re-familiarize myself with it and its characters. I still have a ways to go, certainly, but I am enjoying it and appreciating its good aspects (good characterization and voice acting talents in particular). But, I like Gatchaman better and I think I always will. It could partly be the historian in me, tending to appreciate the most "original source" but mostly, I think, I like its stories better. Their more realistic depiction of conflict -violence, torture, mass civiilian casualties etc.- appeals to me. I also like the fact that Gatchaman has big, muti-episode story arcs that gradually build to dramatic (and often tragic) conclusions. (Most of the TV shows that I've really loved -Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the new Battlestar Galactica- have arc-heavy structures). As well, the fact that the Team members themselves have more flawed personalities in many ways, and often don't get along especially well, to me, just feels... a lot like real life. Take Joe (my favourite) -he's frequently mean to Ryu, angry, rather too quick to solve situations with violence and too prone to hiding his feelings and problems, but then he turns around and shows incredible loyalty to his friends, and courage, and lets slip these little glimpses of his kinder, gentler side every now and then. Add in his whole big, angsty story arc, and I am just captivated every time. So, I love the happy nostalgic vibe that BOTP gives me and, as I see and re-remember more of it, I find myself enjoying it more and more. But I think Gatchaman will always be my favourite.

I have a special place in my heart for BOTP, because it was the show I adored as a kid, and included the characters I always admired. Yep, I've been longing to be Princess since I was a young 'un. But having seen Gatchaman, for me, there is no comparison. The depth to the stories, the character development, the humor of Jinpei... all of these things are absent (for me) when I watch BOTP. I understand the limitations BOTP was under, but even making allowance for that, many of the stories to me seem inconsistent and poorly-thought out... as if someone thought up the beginning without paying any attention to what was going to happen at the end. Plus, Keyop and Zark drive me insane. Rover and Susan aren't much better. And as UW has stated on more than one occasion, Chief Anderson's character was really watered down, as they passed off much of what he should be saying.doing to Zark. I do agree that the voice actors on BOTP were terrific, and they worked well together. They added some fantastic music to the show, and made it (for the most part) blend well with the Gatchaman music. They had cooler names for the communicators, and 'Transmute!'. But in the long run, for me, this doesn't make up for the wonderful stories, humor and character development in the original. JMHO, of course. The point is that all of these shows are worth watching, so I would still anyone to make sure they watch all of both series!

Useless to say why I prefer Gatchaman over BOTP! Apart from the similar reasons already pointed out by others who would choose Gatchaman as a favourite, I find myself the other way round of most of you. I've grown up with Gatchaman, BOTP being the series I hardly know and the least I remember. And I have to be honest ... I do try to get a glimpse of BOTP but I find myself that I hardly can due to my loyalty for Gatchaman! I cannot help this kind of behaviour of mine and I don't know if anyone could ever understand. Gatchaman is also more realistic to me, like others have already said, and as a person who loves melodrama myself, I find it more appealing, especially when it reaches the end of its third series. When there's war involved, and its consequent circumstances, I don't like to see things like Zark and pointless dialogue that divert the attention from the real emotions that could have been felt. There was humour in Gatchaman but only at the right moment. In Gatchaman, the characters were human ... they did mistakes and they learned from them and, many a time they admitted their fault; they sometimes reacted impulsively like adoloscents, and even adults, are expected to do if they met certain obstacles; they didn't hide their anger or their conflicts just to seem right; and the team work was great. But, as I said, I may be biased by the fact stated at the beginning of my post. I do respect BOTP, though, and the efforts of everyone concerned in its production. Their talent couldn't, and shouldn't, be overrided.

Mads ... totally with you on the BotP thing. I love that series so much more than the original. I find I can connect with Mark and his team so much more than I can with Ken. Heck, I can even tolerate Zark to some degree. I don't like him much, but those extra little glimpses he gives you on each character deepens my connection to each of them. Nostalga for me is probably a huge factor in it. I spent much of my early primary school years playing G-Force in the schoolyard with my friends. When I see BotP, it does take me back to those carefree years. The voice acting is beyond compare IMO. Casey Kasem took me to sleepy land many times ... I was in love with him when I was a wee lass, and would actually squeal whenever I heard his voice on other shows! I respect Gatchaman, most definitely, and do enjoy it a lot, but I can't seem to connect with the characters like I can with Battle. Both are great shows -- awesome shows .. but I find BotP to be my hands down favourite.

Originally posted by SJ_SwanJun I respect Gatchaman, most definitely, and do enjoy it a lot, but I can't seem to connect with the characters like I can with Battle. Both are great shows -- awesome shows .. but I find BotP to be my hands down favourite.

SJ, that's quite well said! If we went on simply merits of the actual stories or animation, the original wins hands down. But I am a character person, and I get attached to those characters. Yes, the originals are more realistic characters, but I'm still getting to know those characters. I'm not attached to them as I am the ones from BotP. That being said, I will admit that I do not particularly like Mark as a character, perhaps because in the small little "Pleasantville" that I grew up in and still live, I've seen too many people treated as "Perfect" so that archetype just annoys me. I prefer Ken over Mark, but I'll take Jason first and then Joe over any of them. From the first series the only version that completely fell flat for me was GoS, I couldn't get into the characters at all. Probably because the voice acting feel flat either from script or direction or acting, I don't know which.

Not to **** on anybody's childhood memories or anything, but I have to be honest here. Back when I discovered G-Force in 1995. Me and my younger brother thought it was stupid, and I recall we also made fun of it sometimes too (maybe it's because I wasn't the major anime fan I am today back then). And I had heard about that before BOTP or Gatchaman. I don't remember what year it was I discovered BOTP's existence off the top of my head. It was either 2002 or 2004, but I didn't see an episode of BOTP until 2004 or 2005. This was 4 or 5 years after my anime fascination had begun, and The Anime Network had a few BOTP episodes on their on demand cable service, and I watched the first episode, and I just could not get into it at all. I also watched it, because I read that Peter Fernandez, best known as the voice of Speed Racer had done voices in it, and I wanted to hear who he played, but I don't recall ever finding out. I never became the hardcore Gatchaman fan that I am now until Tatsunoko vs. Capcom was released. Then I started watching ADV Films' re-dubbing of it and really enjoyed it, and I finally became a fan. And I STILL haven't seen all the episodes yet.

Hey, know worries. Yes, we are all protective of our favorites, but your points are just as valid as ours. Though, I don't think Peter Fernandez (never heard of him) did anything on BotP. Is it possible he did something of GoS? There people out there that prefer the OAVs or Comic book renditions, so why not the video game?

You know, here's another thought to throw into this pot... Which version of Gatchaman are we talking? The subbed or the ADV dubbed? The dubbed version was also messed with. Nowhere near to the extent of BotP, but there are still inconsistancies... I personally go for the subbed over the dubbed as I think the VA were better... If your experience with Gatchaman is only the dubbed version then I can see why it would be harder to connect to the characters...

I've watched some subbed episodes - but mostly watch the dubs. The main reason is that I can't just sit and watch - I need to be doing something with my hands (usualy embroidery) and I also find that if I have to read subtitles, I can loose the visual action. And yes - before you ask - going to the movies for me can be a trial. I usually end up sitting on my hands...

Subtitles are a trial for most people, Maddy. I get away with it because I can follow about 20% of the language on my own - enough to skip the subs like 'I understand' or 'I agree' - or my favourite 'So, do you think it's Galactor?'... If we take the original Japanese version out of the equation completely, then I prefer the VA of BotP over the dub. Jason's scream of 'Lucy' as she plumments from the building is by far the most heart breaking thing I've heard in an anime...

I'm with Maddy. I prefer dubs, because I find if I'm reading the subs, then I'm missing a lot of the action on the screen.

A lot of people say that they find Ronnie Schell's voice too whiny for Jason - but he is a talented actor and just gets such emotion in there. I think it suits Jason's brand of attitude - IMHO - when it comes to making snarky comments sound snarky, nobody does it better than Jason. There are also times when there is that absolute menace in his voice - and you just know that this is NOT a person you want to cross. I've always had the impression (and it comes across in a couple of my fics) that the Spectrans know that Mark may just let them go - or take them prisoner. Jason on the other hand, is a more fatal encounter.

Ah - the reason why I like Gatchaman! Ken and Joe are both fatal encounters.... In fact, you can say the same about all the team. It was never logical to me that Mark would let them go - that only gives Spectra back their troops to unleash them again...

I agree, Green. In fact, I explore that very idea in a fic I'm working on right now. How can the Federation possibly expect to win if they don't kill off the enemy, yet the enemy isn't afraid to kill them? They're fighting for a stalemate, not a win.

Originally posted by Madilayn A lot of people say that they find Ronnie Schell's voice too whiny for Jason - but he is a talented actor and just gets such emotion in there.

I never made this connection as a kid, I just loved Jason. But looking back I remember watching reruns of Gomer Pyle and the two characters that I liked where Schell's character and the tall corporal. And I agree with you and TJ completely on the subs. I do love watching them and do watch them to know what was supposed to be said, but to rewatch, I can't do it. I'm always doing something if I have the TV on: Dishes, working on the computer, sewing, cross stitch, and embroidery. -- Maddy, I have a quilt project for you. I'll PM you with the details later tonight or tomorrow.

Originally posted by Transmute Jun I'm with Maddy. I prefer dubs, because I find if I'm reading the subs, then I'm missing a lot of the action on the screen.

I feel the same way.

I go back and forth between the dubbed and subbed versions. I like to hear the Japanese actors (even if I can't understand the language) and I like to compare the subs' translation to the dubbed dialogue but it does require a lot more focus, having to keep your eyes on the bottom of the screen all the time!

When I can I like to watch anime with subtitles ... I find myself closer to a character if I hear the true nature of the emotions that have to be portrayed, these emphasised also vocally. And Japanese know so much how to do this, especially when drama is involved! I do find it tricky to manage to watch all the action at the same time I'm reading the subtitles, though.

Translating dialogue and then dubbing it means addressing a number of problems: 1. Matching mouth-flaps; 2. Translating the MEANING of the line, not necessarily the words (unless you really, really like Engrish); 3. Getting the emotion right. ADV did, it seemed to me, a fairly decent job overall, given that the translators had to figure out what scientific concepts were being (ab)used, determine the English equivalents (and find the one that fit best) -- and that was in addition to making certain that they managed 1-3. I like using subs because I've been curious about names or word use, and I get a kick out of discovering that a movie (anime or live) used English when they had perfectly good Japanese words, or that some terms are borrowed wholesale. (And sometimes, the terms sound even better when pronounced in the Japanese manner. 'Test pilot' sounds even more awesome when spoken with the accent.) BotP and Gatchaman made the characters different, although it's plain that the characterizations of Mark and Jason were intended to fulfill certain expectations that Action for Children's Television had about characters. Mark was kept from being Mr. Perfect by the imperfections of Ken. (Imagine the sort of boring perfect character that would have been created had they made BotP from scratch!) And Jason never seemed like such a complainer, but he was a bit eager to push that red button or to kick some ass. Not as homicidal as Joe, but you could see he was not allowed to be badass.

Originally posted by lborgia88 I go back and forth between the dubbed and subbed versions. I like to hear the Japanese actors (even if I can't understand the language) and I like to compare the subs' translation to the dubbed dialogue but it does require a lot more focus, having to keep your eyes on the bottom of the screen all the time!

I do the same thing, Lb! Sometimes the subs have extra little "suggestions" of a relationship between Ken and Jun! *grin* BOTP will always be my first love. And I still crush on Mark even after all these years... I loved the idea that he was the perfect hero when I watched years ago. However, Ken is a much more realistic character with all of his flaws. After watching Gatchaman...the continuous storyline (that actually made sense) and the flawed, more developed characters had more appeal to me. I still love BOTP, though, and I love to read a good fic using any of the story versions.