After having just watched entire BotP again, it struck me that a lot of assumptions have been made about Mark and Princess' relationship (or lack thereof?) We know in Gatch that Ken/Jun is largely on Jun's side - and in fact I can see in Gatch II more of a Joe/Jun dynamic. However, in BotP both Mark and Princess each acknowledge the other's attraction on several occasions (indeed, after watching on at least one occasion they are surprisingly open about it to ecah other), they flirt and use their communicators in ways that Anderson had not intended (private messages that may be slightly naughty - from Princess' rather embarrased confession). But never once is it stated that they have NOT acted on these feelings. Even Zark only says that it wouldn't be fair for Mark to ask any woman to share his life (Defector to Spectra). Given that, I am finding it easier and easier to believe that during the second half of the series that Mark and Princess are an actual couple. Certainly I can see that after the "Magnetic Attraction" episode they may decide to start dating openly, and I also think that after the Amanda Gregg incident (Defector to Spectra) that Princess may feel the need to stake her claim very openly for her Commander. (A full page newspaper ad springs tomind... ) I am wondering if we are putting it as a "forbidden" relationship because of the fact that it was a "children" cartoon and because they were ostensibly teenagers (which I feel is incorrect anyway - I personally would say very early twenties - after all how the hell could they have managed to get all that training in if they were only eighteen - and when would Mark have had time to do a year at the Space Academy, let alone Princess spend time in Tibet!) I can't see it being a fully sexual relationship to start with - but I can see that blossoming after the final episode with the destruction of space centre. In fact, I can fully see that as they're sitting waiting to die, after their tenative confessions (saying I love you without actually saying the words) that they make the decision that they're not going to die without making love. And remember- in that episode, they are pretty certain that they are about to die (and this may also explain why they haven't transmuted - which to me seems an odd thing for them not to have done). So - there's some Sunday morning ramblings for you.

I always pictured them being older than 18 because I also believed they couldn't possibly have had all the needed training in so short a period of time. I also got that impression from several comments made in ther series. I haven't watched more than an episode or two in the past year, so my descriptions or observations might be slightly off. As you mentioned, Maddy, Mark spent time at the Space Academy. Unless it was an academy at the high school level. Also, Mark mentions one scientist (the one he saw killed in a fissure from an earthquake) was like a father to him. You have to have time to develope that kind of relationship. Jason as a professional race car driver. He seems to have a reputation about it. It takes time to become professional and to build a reputation. No one knew about Princess' relationship with Koji. The only way they couldn't have was if she was out on her own for a while and she had to be an adult for that. And my favorite: Tiny talking about the hula girls. Made me think of pole and lap dancing first then Tiny being a big Kahuna on some beach before Andesron found him for the team. As fort Mark and Princess' relationship - I always thought they were pulling the wool over everyone's eyes. There were too many sexual inuendos for them not to be involved. That just made me think of Zark and Susan.

And the only one who knows for sure is Keyop - who could probably tell everybody exactly how many nights Mark is there, or how many nights Princess is not. Explains why the kid can get away with so much. He knows too much... But I can see them actually enjoying pulling the wool over everyones eyes.

Hi all! Mark is 18. We know this Sky is Falling Part I, which clearly states that Cronus left 14 years ago when Mark was 4, just like in Gatchaman. The ages of the others is more vague. James

Originally posted by Becky Rock No one knew about Princess' relationship with Koji. The only way they couldn't have was if she was out on her own for a while and she had to be an adult for that.

Princess didn't have a relationship with Koji. That episode was never used in BOTP.

I'm sorry I cannot help where reference is made to BOTP but regarding the "forbidden love" aspect, this is surely coming from Gatchaman. Maddy, you're right in saying that in Gatch it's mostly coming from Jun's part, and that in Gatch II there's a more of a Jun/Joe attraction (presumably after the Swan has been ignored by the Eagle for so long, being intentionally or unintentionally!). But in Gatch F, especially as the ending approaches, there is a lot of body language and thoughts in the characters' mind that indicate the tie between the Eagle and the Swan, this being done without any silly flirtings or messages but rather on a serious note. Behind the lines, even if the real reason had never been spoken, I surely could capture their limitations as to why they couldn't have entered into a real relationship.

Ahhhh...my favorite subject!! ITA that Mark/ Princess were much more open about their relationship. And in Gatch they make it seem much more one-sided...however, there are hints that Ken has feelings for Jun (even though he seems totally clueless when he speaks). I still can't imagine that Ken is *that* clueless when it comes to women! However, Ryu says things a couple of times that make me think that there is something between them. At the end of the Peacock ep, Jun runs up to Ken and gives him back his boomerang...Jinpei tries to go with her, but Ryu holds him back and in the subs he says something to the effect of, "You know better than that." Also, at the end of the dummy ep, Jun goes rushing up to Ken, pounding her fists against him and hugging him. Again, Ryu holds Jinpei back, covering his face and saying something like, "That's not for little kids to see." Also, Ken chooses Jun to go with him on most missions, he often has his arm around her, and he rushes to her aid first when she is in trouble. I do wish things were a little more open between them, at least at the end of the series...*sigh*

Originally posted by Transmute Jun

Originally posted by Becky Rock No one knew about Princess' relationship with Koji. The only way they couldn't have was if she was out on her own for a while and she had to be an adult for that.

Princess didn't have a relationship with Koji. That episode was never used in BOTP.

Thanks TJ. Its so easy to get all this mixed up sometimes.

Originally posted by Springie Ahhhh...my favorite subject!! ITA that Mark/ Princess were much more open about their relationship. And in Gatch they make it seem much more one-sided...however, there are hints that Ken has feelings for Jun (even though he seems totally clueless when he speaks). I still can't imagine that Ken is *that* clueless when it comes to women! However, Ryu says things a couple of times that make me think that there is something between them. At the end of the Peacock ep, Jun runs up to Ken and gives him back his boomerang...Jinpei tries to go with her, but Ryu holds him back and in the subs he says something to the effect of, "You know better than that." Also, at the end of the dummy ep, Jun goes rushing up to Ken, pounding her fists against him and hugging him. Again, Ryu holds Jinpei back, covering his face and saying something like, "That's not for little kids to see." Also, Ken chooses Jun to go with him on most missions, he often has his arm around her, and he rushes to her aid first when she is in trouble. I do wish things were a little more open between them, at least at the end of the series...*sigh*

But it was Joe whose arms she jumped into when a big bad robot ant jumped out at her.

Just finished watching "Fierce FLowers". Now BotP doesn't use the slap scene, but there is a cutaway just after Mark says "Good to hae you back" whee Keyop is doing the whole kissy kissy thing so it would be nice to believe that it's a reflection of what is happening between our favorite Eagle and Swan! (or at the very least some good solid cuddling with the promise of smut to come). I guess I just hate to think of tht poor girl being forced to use a Condor to help make him see what's standing in front of him screaming "for god's sake, can't you see I'm yours!" before bopping him on the head with a yoyo. (hmmm - might work. Condor hits, yoyo bops, Eagle unconscious and popped in his bed at the airfield with Swan there to "take care of him". Smut ensues, happy Swan.)

I agree that it's obvious there's a relationship of some sort between Mark and Princess, even if it hasn't hit the bedroom yet. As for their training: G-Force was trained from childhood. That just leaves Jason becoming a well-known race driver before he's even old enough to vote. Unless he had a really good year between those two Africa 9000 races. That's the beauty of fanfics. (And Maddy, I immediately thought of a certain pic on Springie's birthday thread when you mentioned Ken getting swacked with a yo-yo....)

Originally posted by Madilayn I guess I just hate to think of tht poor girl being forced to use a Condor

POOR girl?????? FORCED????? USE?????

Wrong choice of words. Use of a Condor would only add to the fun!

Okay, I'm mollified - possibly due to the pic you posted in The Rubber Room

Originally posted by Madilayn Wrong choice of words. Use of a Condor would only add to the fun!

Oh yes ... as Bruise as definitely proved to us... :grin: SJ

Originally posted by Becky Rock But it was Joe whose arms she jumped into when a big bad robot ant jumped out at her.

Hell, I'd jump into Joe's arms if it was an ordinary ant! And I can't believe I missed this post the first time around. Something to do with reading something to do with a certain poor Swan being forced to use a Condor maybe....

In the mentioned "Race Against Disaster" where Jason is racing with Lucy, there's that scene at the check point where Mark and Princess are fighting the guns. Lucy hearing from Jason that those two are friends, comments on Princess, that she's very beautiful and she things there it is a lot more than friendship...

Then there's the scene where Jason says that Lucy just likes him for his car, and Lucy replies, "I'ts not your car...". And the next shot is of the 'car swerving all over the road, out of control...

Yeah - I was 100% certain that between race end and dinner, Jason and Lucy were having another sort of fun. I just hope that Mark and Princess had the same idea!

Yep that ones open for a LOT of naughty Condor things... *grins*

.. and a Naughty Condor is a Happy Condor!

[i]Originally posted by Becky Rock But it was Joe whose arms she jumped into when a big bad robot ant jumped out at her.

Yeah, too bad they cut this from BotP! I do hope that it was to make Princess look stronger and avoid the stereotype that women need to be saved from ichy bugs and not to eliminate Jason/Princess innuendo.

Originally posted by amethyst

[i]Originally posted by Becky Rock But it was Joe whose arms she jumped into when a big bad robot ant jumped out at her.

Yeah, too bad they cut this from BotP! I do hope that it was to make Princess look stronger and avoid the stereotype that women need to be saved from ichy bugs and not to eliminate Jason/Princess innuendo.

The innuendo was more mine than theirs, I think.

Originally posted by Transmute Jun Then there's the scene where Jason says that Lucy just likes him for his car, and Lucy replies, "I'ts not your car...". And the next shot is of the 'car swerving all over the road, out of control...

Gosh, I actually never thought about it this way. Naughty, naughty

Originally posted by meg

Originally posted by Transmute Jun Then there's the scene where Jason says that Lucy just likes him for his car, and Lucy replies, "I'ts not your car...". And the next shot is of the 'car swerving all over the road, out of control...

Gosh, I actually never thought about it this way. Naughty, naughty

Ahhh, so I am not the only one. I thought maybe something was wrong with me. I don't seem to be able to catch the hidden messages in these BOTP story lines.

Originally posted by Becky Rock But it was Joe whose arms she jumped into when a big bad robot ant jumped out at her.

Hmm, if I remember well, Joe didn't seem to be too happy about it.

Originally posted by meg

Originally posted by Transmute Jun Then there's the scene where Jason says that Lucy just likes him for his car, and Lucy replies, "I'ts not your car...". And the next shot is of the 'car swerving all over the road, out of control...

Gosh, I actually never thought about it this way. Naughty, naughty

Believe it or not, it was James who pointed this out. Go look at the thread for Race Against Disaster.

Hi all! And don't forget that the swerving car scene is followed by Jason and Lucy, now in different seats in the car, with Lucy saying, "I shouldn't have told you how I feel." James

Originally posted by tatsunokofan And don't forget that the swerving car scene is followed by Jason and Lucy, now in different seats in the car, with Lucy saying, "I shouldn't have told you how I feel."

You know, Jason really does need to keep his mind on the job! On the other hand - Mark and Princess should have been taking notes!

Isn't Lucy the first Spectran female to go kaboom on Jason?

She certainly is! And to add insult to injury - she's a robot!

Originally posted by Transmute Jun

Originally posted by meg

Originally posted by Transmute Jun Then there's the scene where Jason says that Lucy just likes him for his car, and Lucy replies, "I'ts not your car...". And the next shot is of the 'car swerving all over the road, out of control...

Gosh, I actually never thought about it this way. Naughty, naughty

Believe it or not, it was James who pointed this out. Go look at the thread for Race Against Disaster.

I have to find that one

Originally posted by tatsunokofan Hi all! And don't forget that the swerving car scene is followed by Jason and Lucy, now in different seats in the car, with Lucy saying, "I shouldn't have told you how I feel." James

I remember her saying that, but I never payed attention to it. Now the whole scene makes a lot more sense to me. Thanks James.