This might have been discussed before, I know but..... Joe is the character with the most outstanding evolution throughout the three series. I felt this long ago as a child when watched Eagle Riders and the originals confirmed it. From the hot-minded easy going Condor in the first series to the laid back G2 in Fighter is a long way. The cause is his mechanical modification. But how much did Rafael's surgery changed Joe? What sort of cyborg is he? Like lucy? Like Lucy and Romina? Is there metal under his skin? Is his skeletal structure enforced with metal? In ep 23 of Gatch F Joe takes a bullet in the shoulder from Nambu and he doesn't bleeds or appears injured. In some episodes he seems average human, while in another he lifts and tosses a tank. Obviously his muscular tissue must have been altered by Rafael. It isn't stated in the series but his brain must have suffered implants/alterations too, because of the shrapnel stuck in it that also caused his ...."demise" at the end of Gatch 1. Linking the brain damage with his more laid back attitude from the second and third series I can't help but wonder if it's the cyborg alteration gave Joe a flat personality. What I haven't figured out is if he's more human or more machine. Or if he's still alive. I'm not saying Joe isn't a person anymore (he has mental autonomy and feeling) , but is he still a living person? Does his internal organs still work? In Gatch 2 there was an x-ray picture that show robotic devices where his internal organs should be. Besides he carries a bomb in his torso that should detonate when he is nearby Sosai. (A nasty issu in itself , considering he could endanger not only his team but the whole Gatch base) At the beginning of F series Nambu says he's found a way to recharge Joe. (A Condor attached to a charger cable plugged into a socket pops into my mind ) Did Joey worked on storage batteries or did he still need to eat in order to get energy?

I have never watched anything beyond the original series so I can't offer anything helpful... But ... perhaps young Joey has an alternator like our cars do? You know, recharges the "battery" as he moves? Flash had a pretty nifty wristwatch that did the same thing.... SJ Who can't get into the discussion but will certainly give it a shot...

In my mind, I have compared Joe to the character Marcus (just coincidence) in Terminator Salvation. There is a scene that shows his internal structure - metal ribcage, etc, but human internal organs. I immediately thought 'That must be what Joe looks like.' Wendy's Out of the Shadows describes Joe's skin as having been augmented to make it bullet proof. I'd have to go back and reread for the rest.

I don't think he became 'laid back and easy going' but more controlled in his temper and actions as the series progressed. I picked up on that a lot too, more and more focus went towards developing the Condor. Ryu is laid back in personality and very easy going.

I would never call Joe 'laid back', but toward the end of Fighter, from what I've seen, he seems to be more tired of the war and less 'gung ho' to slay every Galactor he meets for the sake of it. He just wants to end the war. Inside, he feels that he's outlived his 'true' life, and that he will/deserves to die to defeat Sosai. He also has to counterbalance Ken, who gets more emotional and off-the-handle as the Hypershoot illness. progresses. Regardless, his loyalty to his teammates and his dedication to defeating Galactor, even at the cost of his own life, does not change.

Originally posted by amyltrer What sort of cyborg is he? Like lucy? Like Lucy and Romina? Is there metal under his skin? Is his skeletal structure enforced with metal? In ep 23 of Gatch F Joe takes a bullet in the shoulder from Nambu and he doesn't bleeds or appears injured. In some episodes he seems average human, while in another he lifts and tosses a tank. Obviously his muscular tissue must have been altered by Rafael. It isn't stated in the series but his brain must have suffered implants/alterations too, because of the shrapnel stuck in it that also caused his ...."demise" at the end of Gatch 1. Linking the brain damage with his more laid back attitude from the second and third series I can't help but wonder if it's the cyborg alteration gave Joe a flat personality. What I haven't figured out is if he's more human or more machine. Or if he's still alive. I'm not saying Joe isn't a person anymore (he has mental autonomy and feeling) , but is he still a living person? Does his internal organs still work? In Gatch 2 there was an x-ray picture that show robotic devices where his internal organs should be. Besides he carries a bomb in his torso that should detonate when he is nearby Sosai. (A nasty issu in itself , considering he could endanger not only his team but the whole Gatch base)

I could be wrong but I don't think there's much canon to go on here. I think it's canon that he still has his human heart -in Gatch II's ep. 29, Jun says she can feel his heart beating. It's also canon that he gets a cyborg upgrade of some kind from Dr. Rafael in ep. 25 (and I think that's when he gets the bomb planted beside his heart that will detonate only in Leader X's proximity). I guess it's also canon that he needs to periodically be "recharged" in order to keep his cyborg parts functioning. In ep. 16 (and if I recall, some others) he seems to suffer neurological distress from EMFs or certain kinds of tracking beacons (as in ep. 16) which, to me, implies he's got some cyborg hardware implanted in his brain. It's probably there to correct the damage that was killing him at the end of the first series, but maybe there's some enhancement of his senses (vision, hearing etc.) too. He obviously is a lot stronger and resistant to fire and explosions, so I think it's safe to assume that at least his major muscle groups have been replaced with artificial ones that are stronger or enhanced in some way that makes them stronger and able to function for long periods of time without fatigue. Much (possibly all) of his skin, I would assume, has likewise been replaced/enhanced to make it extra durable and damage-resistant. I also think it's probable that most of his body's major skeletal components have also been replaced with stronger ones, or reinforced in some way for greater durability and damage resistance. I would speculate that he might have some organs that are artificial -he did get shot up with bullets at the end of the first series. I could well believe that some of his innards had to be replaced by Dr. Rafael, but I like to think that most are still his own. Again, I think that most of Joe's cyborg details were never really specified by the writers, and so we can only go with what seems plausible, based on the show's canon facts and the evidence Joe demonstrates by his actions and abilities.

I agree IB, they did leave a lot open to interpretation when it came to how Joe is actually built. just from what I've read and seen of the Gatch II and Fighter. Great for ficcie writing! The main focuses were on his strength and heart.

Originally posted by Transmute Jun I would never call Joe 'laid back', but toward the end of Fighter, from what I've seen, he seems to be more tired of the war and less 'gung ho' to slay every Galactor he meets for the sake of it. He just wants to end the war. Inside, he feels that he's outlived his 'true' life, and that he will/deserves to die to defeat Sosai. He also has to counterbalance Ken, who gets more emotional and off-the-handle as the Hypershoot illness. progresses. Regardless, his loyalty to his teammates and his dedication to defeating Galactor, even at the cost of his own life, does not change.

This is also my view on the issue of Joe's change of character. He had been through a lot and this was clearly shown in the first episode of Gatch F when he was out of energy and lost hope thinking that what he had to do and lived for had been accomplished. Ken was the one in that episode that told him and encouraged him to move on as he had to enjoy the peace that they so fought for. Feeling devastated when he was the first to find out about Ken's deteriorating health more on in the series, and knowing well how it felt to be torn by illness, Joe switched character with Ken on the turn of the situation. As to his body, I also like to think of Joe keeping his human organs, maybe some of them changed or enhanced according to the necessity. In Episode 48, the last one of Gatch F, I clearly recall seeing a human skeleton shown when Joe was electrocuted by Sosai Z as he tried to expose its source. No blood, I think, was seen when an energy bolt passed right through his chest on their way to destroy the asteroid of antimatter and clearly no internal organs were damaged (at least not human) as he progressed through the fight sometimes seeming as if he was not injured at all. I also think that his senses were enhanced especially when he could easily detect Sosai Z's being when approaching him, this ability given by Dr Raphael.

I like to think some parts of him were left alone...LOL my mind just hit gutter level smut. I see him as having some kind of inplant because other wise he would have had to have brain damage from the condition that was killing him. Human flesh, with some organs replaced and something along the lines of the "six million dollar man" effect. Human yet not all human. I imaged that too Gatchamarie. His hightened senses of Leader Z. I used that kinda idea in my AU. That Joe could make an easier connection with him and his presence in his mind. I think Joe wasn't entirely sure himself exactly what was done to him.

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne Human flesh, with some organs replaced and something along the lines of the "six million dollar man" effect. Human yet not all human.

That's the idea!

Hi all! The subject of exactly how much of Joe is cybernetic and exactly what his abilities are has been something fans have talked about for many years now. Sadly, the exact extent of his abilities seemed to vary from episode to episode. In one episode he was strong enough to lift a tank, but in the next, he would be portrayed almost like a normal human. In another they establish that Joe cannot sweat, yet in another he is seen sweating up a storm. It's my belief that the writers never decided exactly what Joe could do, so his abilities and limitations were determined by the needs of any given episode. As for how much of Joe is a cyborg, we do get to see a few examples that show some of his innards, and they might help clarify things a bit. Here's a model sheet image of Joe's musculature: How that was shown in the series itself: Here are some X-Ray-style shows of Joe's insides, showing snippets of some of his cybernetic parts: Here's a somewhat clearer cutaway which also shows the more mechanical nature of his skeletal system: Here's a close-up of the cybernetic part in Joe's chest. Here is an image produced by Tatsunoko for the magazine Animage back at the point when it was first revealed that Joe was a cyborg: There were also a couple of times when we saw inside Joe's body when he got near Governor X and Governor Z: Joe's eyes were apparently also changed by Dr. Raphael, as this targetting sight appeared in his vision when he was tracking the location of Governor Z: And if he was punctured, it was possble that Joe would have sparks appear from the wound, as seen here: I hope these will help some! James

Thank you James, those are very interesting .... since I had not seem them as screenshots like that before. Although I suspect they are available on different sites, perhaps even here, if I was willing to search for them.

James, that's great. Thanks. It makes it appear the only parts of his skeleton still bone are his head, most of his arms, his pelvis and most of his legs, with smaller cybernetic additions here and there, like at the joints, in his head and near his heart. Full cybernetics make up his chest and spine, which makes sense since he was all shot up. Again, it seems very much like Marcus in Terminator Salvation.

Thanks for all of those images, James! It was very helpful!

Thanks for the information, James! It's good to have it clarified that Joe's cyborg features and abilities were never exactly clarified. It gives fic writers some wiggle room, although the images you've posted here definitely provide some good evidence of what Dr. Rafael did to Joe.

What I think happens to is that we write ficcies in 2009...(After 2000) Well a lot later than when the ideas of technology were floating around. A cyborg was total fantasy back then. A lot of guess work to how a robotic converted human would work and function. Even though we have guess work still now, we have a lot more technological advancements to draw on. I'm not a scientist by any means, but I still have access to information and learning to drawn on.

Great topic Amy, I've enjoyed reading everyones different thoughts and opinions. Along with James indepth pics and info. it clears up some of my own thoughts on the subject.

Thank you for the images James. I had a faint memory of a scene were Joe's body appears through X-rays. I saw the vision pic in ep 48 of Fighter but didn't realised this is through Joe's eyes. Does he ever use targetting sight before in the series? Does this happened as a result of his proximity with Z or it was another enhancement?He had a very accurate aim in Gatch 1 but in 2 and F was awsome!

Originally posted by amyltrer I saw the vision pic in ep 48 of Fighter but didn't realised this is through Joe's eyes.

It's the same for me, Amy! I also saw that bit in ep 48 of Gatchaman F but I never came to the conclusion that that was what Joe's eyes visualised! Thanks for the pics and info, James! You always know how to quench our thirst for info regarding Gatchaman!

Hi all!

Does he ever use targetting sight before in the series? Does this happened as a result of his proximity with Z or it was another enhancement?

That's the only time we ever see that, so whether or not it's something he can use at will or something that only works when he's near X or Z is unclear. It would seem like something that would be handy to be able to take advantage of whenever he wanted, but you never know how the X-obsessed Dr. Raphael would have wired him. James

Great info and images, as always, James. Thanks so much for enlightening us once again! I had the same thought as Becky... It seems about the only "human" components left in Joe were his head, brain, and appendages (ugh! Thanks for that smut remark, Ebony! My thoughts went right there on that one! LOL!) Anyway, I have a question about the bomb in Joe's chest. This may be fundamental, but I don't remember if this was explained in the few eps I saw or not.... What was the reason for the bomb in his chest? Besides it going off when Joe was in Sosai's proximity. What was Rafael's reasoning for it? Since Joe is a cyborg, couldn't he easily take Sosai out in some other fashion? Or was there some other reason to destroy Joe too (ie: the cyborg mechanics would eventually fail and render Joe either completely useless, make him go insane, or have some other horrible ill-desired effect?).

Hi all!

What was the reason for the bomb in his chest? Besides it going off when Joe was in Sosai's proximity. What was Rafael's reasoning for it?

That was pretty much it. The bomb was there to destroy Governor X, and that was Dr. Raphael's main reason for saving Joe -- so he could be the instrument of X's destruction. This was all part of the Planning Establishment for the series. Of course, at that point, Joe was an android made to look, think, and act like the real (And really deceased) Joe. Anyway, the Planning describes the situation as follows: "At the end of the previous production, the fact of Joe's sad demise was common knowledge. But immediately after Governor X retreated into space, Dr. Raphael escaped his long captivity, and discovered Joe's remains in a ravine. Dr. Raphael brought certain mecha from Gallactor's Headquarters to a secret location, and built a secret laboratory, where he created an entirely android Joe, within whose body lay the Micro Space Bomber. Joe's memories were transplanted into the android. His body is indeed that of an android, so he could be called a mecha, but his soul is completely unchanged from that of Joe's lifetime. Passed on intact was his powerful hatred when confronting Gallactor. Dr. Raphael, utilizing Joe's devotion to his hatred and his ability to act, was confident that Joe would be a warrior with a yearning to get to Governor X that was second to none. And so, as the sole sad means Dr. Raphael has for saving the earth, Joe's mind has returned to life. Joe is alive. However, he is entrusted with a fatal mission... ... Joe does not worry about that destiny. He feels joy in once again being alive and fighting Gallactor. The instant Joe is able to act on his yearning to get to Governor X, a radar inside his body will contact Dr. Raphael. Dr. Raphael will then push the fateful button. Governor X will instantly be eternally destroyed, though Joe will also be destroyed. He will linger as part of our memories... ... forever... ..." I hope this helps! James

Please forgive any ignorant assumptions or questions in this post as I've not seen II or F. James, when was Joe then changed from an android, as your post above suggests, to a cyborg, the term used the series? In I the term cyborg has been misused to apply to androids and robots that have the appearance of humans or animals but in reality are not. However, I read somewhere, not sure if it was here or Wendy's site, that the cyborg Joe in II and F was supposed to be based on or inspired by The Six Million Dollar Man, who was a true cyborg though I don't recall the term ever being used to represent him or the Bionic Woman or Max.

I am so glad they never used the final episodes in BotP. I would have hated to see Jason die or be turned into what Joe became. Joe seemed to be more driven, more filled with hate due to wehat happeend to his family. Jason is described as an orphan and we have to assume, based on the story given, was orphaned at a very young age. He wanst to stop Spectra, but I never get the impression he 'hates' Zoltar the way Joe 'hates' Galactor.

Hi all!

James, when was Joe then changed from an android, as your post above suggests, to a cyborg, the term used the series?

This change was done somewhere between the first draft of the series Planning and a revision for that Planning. I've got a trio of documents that show this progression. The first is the hand-written copy of the first draft, where Joe is listed as an android. The second is an hand-written addendum to the first draft, which included a list of changes that occured to the first draft (Such as name changes like Dr. Einstein to Dr. Raphael and Sadomadonna to Gel Sadra, and that Joe is now a cyborg, not an android). The third is a final, printed version of the Planning, which incorporates the changes and additions from the addendum into the first draft. Strangely, there are a few spots in the final version where they forget to make the change from referring to Joe as an android to a cyborg, so he switches from one to the other partway through!

In I the term cyborg has been misused in In I the term cyborg has been misused to apply to androids and robots that have the appearance of humans or animals but in reality are not.

You are correct, there have been times in Gatchaman when the term cyborg has been used for what are likely androids.

However, I read somewhere, not sure if it was here or Wendy's site, that the cyborg Joe in II and F was supposed to be based on or inspired by The Six Million Dollar Man, who was a true cyborg though I don't recall the term ever being used to represent him or the Bionic Woman or Max.

I know the term was used to describe them every so often, but Universal tended to stick with the trademarkable term "Bionic" instead. Don't forget, the first Six Million Dollar Man TV movie was based off of a novel by Martin Caidin named "Cyborg." Anyway, whether Joe was inspired by either of the Bionic duo is a debatable point. Both series were immensely popular here, but were nowhere near as popular in Japan. Six Million Dollar Man aired between 1974 and 1974 in Japan, and the Bionic Woman did the same betwen 1977 and 1978, so it is possible that they did have some influence. However, I've never found any material, vintage or otherwise, that has compared Joe to Steve Austin or Jaime Sommers. So, we really don't know for certain that they provided any inspiration. James

Again, James, thanks for the info and for clearing up information. And thanks for the tip on that book, once my reading list drops by a few books, I'll have to get that one and read it.

Originally posted by tatsunokofan But immediately after Governor X retreated into space, Dr. Raphael escaped his long captivity, and discovered Joe's remains in a ravine. Dr. Raphael brought certain mecha from Gallactor's Headquarters to a secret location, and built a secret laboratory, where he created an entirely android Joe, within whose body lay the Micro Space Bomber. Joe's memories were transplanted into the android. His body is indeed that of an android, so he could be called a mecha, but his soul is completely unchanged from that of Joe's lifetime.

I must confess that before reading your explanation I thought Joe had his original body, enhanced with cybernatic implants. The pics you previously showed emphasize this idea. But making Joe a full android, this meaning tranferring the memories and emotions to an inert body is a bit startling, and it implies that if Dr. Rafael would be still alive he could bring the other dead character back by turning them into androids. It was one of my kiddish curiosities if Joe is still able to have kids, but what you've revealed blows this thought!

Originally posted by tatsunokofan The instant Joe is able to act on his yearning to get to Governor X, a radar inside his body will contact Dr. Raphael. Dr. Raphael will then push the fateful button. Governor X will instantly be eternally destroyed, though Joe will also be destroyed. He will linger as part of our memories... ... forever... ..."

That makes me feel relieved Dr. Raphael didn't survived Gatch 2. Shame, he could have been a better supporting character than Nambu! Once again James, thank you for the infos!

Originally posted by amyltrer But making Joe a full android, this meaning tranferring the memories and emotions to an inert body is a bit startling, and it implies that if Dr. Rafael would be still alive he could bring the other dead character back by turning them into androids. It was one of my kiddish curiosities if Joe is still able to have kids, but what you've revealed blows this thought!

But, a couple posts back, James said that making Joe an android was only in a planning draft, and then later the planning shows him being made to be a cyborg instead (ie. with some humanness -however vaguely or inconsistently defined), though they still did occasionally use the word "android" instead of "cyborg."

In terms of fanfiction or daydreams, I think it gives us poetic license to take our own interpretation; when canon can reinvent itself or the sake of plot, why can't fanon?

James people can use ideas but not actually state the source of inspiration due to copyright laws. They could have seen the series (6 million dollar man) liked the concept but not want to identify with it at all just in case. The other thing is, the cyborgs in the series of Gatch 1 had a more robotic ideal to them. Like become a cyborg, them forget it, you may as well die. So a lot of it I feel is from the producers themselves and not ripping off other ideas. Because when I think about it, Gatchaman was made before the 6 million dollar man or its equivalents.

Hi all!

But, a couple posts back, James said that making Joe an android was only in a planning draft, and then later the planning shows him being made to be a cyborg instead (ie. with some humanness -however vaguely or inconsistently defined), though they still did occasionally use the word "android" instead of "cyborg."

Exactly right. The Joe who appeared in Gatchaman II and Gatchaman Fighter was a cyborg -- a human with mechanical parts implanted -- not an android. The notion of the android Joe was changed by the Tatsunoko staff before the series went into production, so the Joe we saw was the real Joe, not a copy.

James people can use ideas but not actually state the source of inspiration due to copyright laws. They could have seen the series (6 million dollar man) liked the concept but not want to identify with it at all just in case.

I wasn't referring to Tatsunoko not saying the Six Million Dollar Man or the Bionic Woman inspired Joe the cyborg, I was referring to what was seen in the general and fan press regarding the series at that time. No one in Japan mentioned a possible connection, including those who would not be concerned with possible copyright violations. As it was, as long as Tatsunoko didn't claim that Joe was "Bionic" (Which was a copyrighted term at the time), no one could sue them for making him a cyborg (Which is not a copyrightable term). James

Originally posted by tatsunokofan The Joe who appeared in Gatchaman II and Gatchaman Fighter was a cyborg -- a human with mechanical parts implanted -- not an android. The notion of the android Joe was changed by the Tatsunoko staff before the series went into production, so the Joe we saw was the real Joe, not a copy.

A sigh of relief!!!!!!