Hiya peeps ... (Cep, if you feel this is inappropriate, please feel free to chide me, spank me, and delete this thread) I was thinking about the challenges we have and the awesome fics that pass through our fandom and thought: You know, with Oscar season approaching, and with everyone excited about awards and nominees, let's do our own version. I would love to create the first annual Gatchamania Fanfic Awards. This wouldn't be something relegated only to fics posted here, but to any fic across the web that is birdie related that you feel should get more recognition than a simple gushing review. I am really not sure if anything like this has been done on the Yahoo List ... I am absolutely not a member there ... but I have seen it done in other fandoms and really think it would make an author's day to find out they've received a surprise nomination/award! What do you think? I want to suggest a month period where you can sift through your favourites and offer up nominees. Post the link to the fic on this thread, with a brief summary, who the author is, and to which category you want it considered for. These authors will (if we can find a way to contact them) be notified that they've received a nomination. Then we will hold a vote (Gatch members only may vote) and the winner will receive their "banner" to post on their fics that their piece was either nominated or won the award. The categories are below: Best New Author Most improved Author Favourite Author Best Romantic Fic Best Drama Best Action Best fiction -- Battle of the Planets Best Fiction -- Gatchaman Best Fiction -- G-Force Best fiction -- Eagle Riders (I can't help but chuckle at that name and think it was a referral to the Swans) Best Crossover Best Short Story Best Yaoi Best Smut Yeah, there are a lot of awards there, but there are also an amazing array of glorious works out there. I think, also, that this might inspire some more gorgeous members here at Gatch, and we might end up with more fics for our growing fic library here... So. What do you all think? Let's pump out some recognition to those writers who seem to get lost inside the web and direct everyone to the works we admire most! I call the cut off for nominations for March 20th, 2009. I will have a week of silent voting (PM me your votes) and we'll announce the winners on the 27th, March. I hope you'll all participate. SJ

Sounds a great idea SJ!!

Actually- I want to add a category. Most Improbable Storyline After all, many of the Gatch/BotP storylines were pretty improbable - so it would be following a canon tradition!

Awesome, maddy!! I'll throw that in as well! Okayyyyyyyyyyyy now start nominating, guys! I'll work on the award banners! SJ Hmmm I just had a thought. If someone is worried thier nomination will upset someone else and wants to keep it anonymous, that's groovy ... Just PM me the pertinent info and I'll wack it up here for everyone to read.

How about a category for best series fics and/or best ongoing series?

:grins: We should add spooky too .... Okaaaay ... How about we have a vote as to which categories we should have and make this a collaborative effort? I'm loving the award suggestions ... so let's take some time to think of the best categories and the fics we all love to post up here to vote on... I already want to add up a spooky fic, which is the Baardwing one. I absolutely love it, but can't find it to post it. If one of you fine peoples can find a link for me, I'd appreciate it and then I can officially nominate Baardwing as our first ever Gatch fanfic award nominee for best thriller (Spooky is in that category, right?) Thankee!! SJ

It sounds like a good idea to me hun, so how shall we go about getting the votes in? Should we use polls? (I'll spank you later)

Is this the fic you're referring to SJ? Barrdwings Fic Thread

You realise, we never did do anything about this. Anybody feel like reviving???

I am tooooooootally all over it. I was a wee bit disappointed that it got so little interest when I fist put it out there, but I am by no means put off the idea! To the best of my knowledge this has never been done within the Gatch/BotP fandom -- although I am not a member over at Yahoo, so it's likely they may have done it... I think it'll be great!

I have never seen it done anywhere - or on the BotP list. You know, I think that we could keep all the categories you originally selected. If we open this up to fics archived anywhere then we have a wonderful selection to choose from. I think voting by polls would be good. We can let the BotP list know - a number of the peeps there are members here too.

It would be soooo hard for me to choose, though. There are so many fabulous ficcies out there!!

Totally let them know, but all nominations must be made at this site... We have to keep it all in one place to ensure all nominees get looked at.

Oh yeah - definitely. And all voting done here as well.

Originally posted by Springie It would be soooo hard for me to choose, though. There are so many fabulous ficcies out there!!

That would be my problem, too!

I agree with Springie and Marie there are so many amazing fics its hard to choose.

Great idea. How about this to give a little structure: One month for nominations to a dedicated email (someone creates an email just for this something like gatch_fanfic_awards @ addy?.com. No nomination limits, a person can nominate as many fics as desired per category. Top five nomination per category go to a public vote, either through polls here, a dedicated yahoo group, other poll site. Voting for one to two weeks. Winners and runners-up announced in special thread.

That sounds great, Amethyst. Is somebody willing to do some graphics for the winners?

I'm not good at graphics, but I can help tracking nominations and such. If we set an email with two or three people having the access, each person focusing on a category (ask nominators place category in topic line) it will save time and not overwhelm any one person.

That sounds the most workable plan. I'm going to make anothe suggestion - nominated stories must not only be a good read, but they should also have no glaring grammar and spelling errors. We really do want to honour the best - and that means getting the technical side of writing correct as well as the imaginative side.

Originally posted by Madilayn That sounds the most workable plan. I'm going to make anothe suggestion - nominated stories must not only be a good read, but they should also have no glaring grammar and spelling errors. We really do want to honour the best - and that means getting the technical side of writing correct as well as the imaginative side.

We should come up with a list of guidelines. Here's a few off the top of my head, others can be added or these can be changed as needed, but should be set before we start the nominating period. 1. Stories must fit within the category for which it is nominated. Stories that fit within more than one category, may be nominated for more than one. 2. Stories must be readable and exhibit the best of Gatchaman, et al, fanfiction, ie, coherent plot, acceptable grammar, minimal spelling errors/typos. 3. No squealing fangirling. Make your nomination, plan and simple. If you feel the need to defend the nomination keep it to one or two key points, if it needs more than that, why are you nominating the story. Another good place to find ideas, is browse the moderated archives for submission guidelines.

You're right with point 3. Either a fic deservs to be nominated or it doesn't - a fic that deservs it will not need any long winded explainations. You know I was also thinking- once we have the first fic ones done, perhaps we should do fanart as well.

Yeah that sounds good. Do fics than a few months later do art. After it's been done for awhile and we know exactly how much work it is we can consider combining them into one keep them separate. Categories could be similar, art may need some tweaking but not that much.

Do they have to be completed? One of my favorite isn't.

Usually for these sorts of awards they should be completed - after all if we make this an annual thing, then the iincomplete fics will get their chance.

:puts up hand: I volunteer to be part of the awards committee here!! Please?

Natch - it was your idea originally, SJ!

Ahh yes, baybee... but you and Amethyst are the ones refining it and making it so much mor eglorious and detailed than my lazy brain could have ever come up with!! I am so excited that this is coming back and is going to go ahead!!! I already have some favourites to nominate!!

Amethyst - how about you and SJ and I start working on guidelines. Can you PM me your e-mail address?

Originally posted by Madilayn That sounds the most workable plan. I'm going to make anothe suggestion - nominated stories must not only be a good read, but they should also have no glaring grammar and spelling errors. We really do want to honour the best - and that means getting the technical side of writing correct as well as the imaginative side.

***cough**** Maddy your post about no bad grammar etc, has a few in it. EX. shouldn't there be the word "like" after sounds? and the word another is missing the "r" . Sorry but I had to chuckle some when I read this.

Ah - if only we had betas for our posts!

Originally posted by Madilayn Amethyst - how about you and SJ and I start working on guidelines. Can you PM me your e-mail address?

Will do!

Gatchgirl, don't worry about someone screening for grammar. Most know that I came here from the Harry Potter fandom; what many may not realize or know is that I was/am an admin at Sycophant Hex, a grammar-Nazi archive for that fandom (I say was because I'm not currently active in the queues, but manly as an advisory/mediator role). I was one of the more liberal admin. Grammar need not be textbook perfect but functional and readable, it should enhance the story and liberate the meaning, not tangle it up. Minor spelling and tense-shifts are usually ignored by most people, but consistent or major errors become distracting and show a lazyness on the part of the author (sometimes possessive: "I don't want a beta because I want the story to be all mine!")

Originally posted by amethyst Minor spelling and tense-shifts are usually ignored by most people, but consistent or major errors become distracting and show a lazyness on the part of the author (sometimes possessive: I don't want a beta because I want the story to be all mine!)

Amethyst, couldn't you just ask you beta to review your story for grammar and spelling (and for me tense) issues. Ask them not to comment on the plot. That is what I did for my first story. Since then I have become more comfortable with what a beta does and will ask for plot suggestions and know I do not have to do what is being advised.

Hi all! While this really isn't my thing, I do have a couple of suggestions regarding the nomination process that might make things more manageable, and possibly a bit more annoying, for those involved. If you intend to make this something of an annual event, which it sound like you do, then the eligible stories should only be those that were published (Either entirely or their final chapter, no incomplete stories allowed) within a certain timeframe (The calendar year of 2009, for example). This would limit the number of stories up for consideration to a more manageable amount, as well as to prevent people from voting for whatever story was just published and is therefore the freshest in their minds. Of course, this would eliminate from consideration stories published prior to the start of the designated time period (Stories published after the time period would be eligible for nomination next year). If you feel that the older stories simply must be honored in some fashion, you could add a "Hall of Fame" type category for stories published some time ago. I'd recommend limiting the stories in this category to those published a minimum of 5 years ago (2004 or earlier, if the time frame for current nominees is 2009) to make sure that the stories really do stand the test of time (Those published in 2005, 2006, and so on would become eligible for nomination in 2011, 2012, and so on. In 2015, the new stories nominated this year would be eligible for Hall of Fame status). Like I said, just a suggestion. Do with it as you wish. James

CD, I think you've missed understood or I should have put quotes around that. I love my betas! Even when I disagree with them, they make me a better writer. But that is a phrase that I have heard from many an author, usually after I've rejected a well structured plot because the author can't spell or write. You would not believe the amount of beta counseling I've done with authors: The three main types of betas - SPaG -Plot - Those that do both **Amethyst stops rant, listens to CD's in direct beta, and scuttles off to edit post**

James I love your idea. And it shouldn't be too hard to settle for completion dates, most archives post last update and story completed (though not all authors are on the ball with that). I really love the Hall of Fame category idea and your guideline for that is clear and simple and the only other thing is that the story must also meat the rest of the guidelines. We could also have a WiP category, maybe stories updated at least once during the nomination year. This might also spur writers on to finish the stories. As they could be eligible for another nomination in the next year.

I love your Hall of Fame idea James - and agree Amethyst - they must also meet the other guidelines For the first year, though, I'd like to show my preference that it be opened to all completed fics - just so some great older fics that I know people love can be nominated. I also like your WIP category idea, Amethyst. I'd add another proviso on that category - that a fic can only be nominated in that category once.

Originally posted by Madilayn I also like your WIP category idea, Amethyst. I'd add another proviso on that category - that a fic can only be nominated in that category once.

That makes perfect sense! Otherwise we'd run the risk of a story owning that category because the author updates only once or twice year, and that's not what we want that category for.

Originally posted by amethyst CD, I think you've missed understood or I should have put quotes around that. I love my betas! Even when I disagree with them, they make me a better writer. But that is a phrase that I have heard from many an author, usually after I've rejected a well structured plot because the author can't spell or write. You would not believe the amount of beta counseling I've done with authors: The three main types of betas - SPaG -Plot - Those that do both **Amethyst stops rant, listens to CD's in direct beta, and scuttles off to edit post**

You are correct Amethyst I miss understood. I thought you were saying you don't like betas for your stories, and found that odd since you said you were part of the "Grammar Nazis". Sorry for the miss understanding - but what I said is something that could be pointed out to those individuals who do not want their stories Beta d I am good at catching the grammar and spelling errors in stories, but for making suggestions to the plot - I don't feel so confident in that area. TJ may say differently on that though since the last few stories I have betad were hers.

Hi all!

For the first year, though, I'd like to show my preference that it be opened to all completed fics - just so some great older fics that I know people love can be nominated.

That's where the idea of a Hall of Fame comes in. Otherwise, the older favorites would be likely to dominate the nominations and squeeze out newer stories from receiving fair consideration. James

You know James, I totally agree with you on that. I think the awards should only cover off a 12 month period, and any of the older stuff be put into the Hall of Fame category. Just my two cents, though... I am loving the thought and energy going into this little project!! This is going to be great when we get it all put together and run with it!!

My experience is that when these awards are handled well and it increases participation in the fandom and writers as well as readers love it. In the future, we could also consider adding non-fiction categories.

Hmmmm - just had a bit of a brainwave.... Perhaps for the first year, we could give Hall of Fame awards in some of the categories and also for the first year extend to a two or three year period then... There are just so many great older stories out there that I don't want their authors to feel left out or disheartened because they can't be considered.

I think that would work well Maddy!

I'm not having a go at anyone as I believe everyone has the right to their opinions, but this would have been the place to have those opinions aired before Maddy, SJ and Amethyst threw their hearts and souls into organising this thing... And if anyone was a tad nervous about upsetting someone else, nominations can be done via e-mail. I have nominated that way as well as in the nomination thread... IMHO, I think this is a great idea - I've been exposed to fics I didn't even know existed since I came to this fandom late - and I would bet my bottom dollar that I haven't been the only one reading the fics nominated. I can see the point of view of both sides, but I have to say that not being able to nominate all authors and fics kinda defeats the purpose. I believe Cathrl made a similar comment, so I'm not the only one thinking along these lines... Obviously, more indepth discussions should have been done before the three ladies went to all the trouble - but I understand why they thought they were on a winner since there is nothing but encouragement in the 3 pages of this thread. Just my two cents worth...

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(Posted in the correct thread, sorry for the error.) Maddy, I'm happy that you like the ficcie and it moves you to tears... (I wrote it on ANZAC day after watching all the veterans marching...) I have to admit I have some concerns relating the awards. Its not that I don't appreciate the efforts you, SJ, and amethyst have gone to, its just that it happened too fast. What I mean is that before it was launched and finalised I feel it would have been better to notify the whole fandom (meaning not just Gatchamania,) and give them time to give feedback on the rules and structure. Also on things like nominations... I'm not against things like awards, IRL, I've entered competitions with my artworks. (porcelain doll arts) but the difference is I know my work would come under the microscope, have comments made etc. Next year I'm putting artwork in competitions in Sydney, but I know in advance to make sure they're polished... (I know when I post a story I can expect at times that I will be critiqued by a reader, but as a newbie that was the most nerve raking thing I've encountered...trembling because I was trying to improve on skills that others had through tertiary study...) So for a newbie, who might not have the confidence of someone who writes a lot it could be very intimidating or worse when they see they could be nominated without being asked first if the accept their work being nominated for the awards. Can you see what I mean??? IRL people being nominated for awards are notified first, before the nomination is made public to give them a chance to say yes or no to it. So they don't end up in an awkward situation and hard feelings with the organisers... I figured you expected teething problems with this being your first year. Maddy I'm sure you've show your work IRL show's/competitions before... can you understand what I'm saying... I hope what I'm saying makes sense... if not IM me and we can talk it over more..I just want you to know its not a personal, but an observation. For now hold my nomination please, as flattering as it is I'm not totally comfortable with it at the moment... (considering my writing skills aren't near as polished as others here, and I work hard to make my writing as polished as can be...) Ebony.

Ladies, the times I tried to have my say I was shot down so quickly I gave up trying. How many times have I said I am an unconfident Owl in my writing and in making my posts, and I know many others on this fandom have come in here claiming the same thing. You noticed, they were saying, "I can not chose." but were not listening to what they were saying which, I think, is close to my feelings of "I will not choose". Either that or these others may have seen that my comments were ignored or brushed off and were also afraid to post their thoughts. (maybe I am thinking too high an opinion of myself on this last thought.) The only reason I started posting stories was because I was ensured my work would not be judged. Now with the introduction of these Awards I am left thinking everybody is judging my work and comparing it to other stories. With this feeling and the way my comments were shut down I am left feeling unconfident and unwilling to post stories again. I can hear everyone laughing again and saying "You are no good, and you are unworthy." Honestly, I do not want to see this board turn into a 'them' against 'us' site. Or have something similar happen like happened at the old Eagle's Lair site (I still do not have the full details on that but I know there were a lot of hurt feelings all around). We had a lot of threads throughout this site, and even on the Mailing List there were a number, saying "you should read this story" or the "self-promotion thread". That was were I was more than willing to post stories I thought others should read and others were posting stories that should be read. If that was the entire point of the Awards then why couldn't that have continued?

Okay, I can see that there are hurt feelings here, and this is exactly what I was trying to avoid. I apologize to anyone who feels they have been wronged. I can only state my own opinion here, so that's what I will do. I LOVE this site, because of the encouragement it gives to new authors, and because of the way we all get along, without any of the rivalries or hard feelings other sites have had. We all know of sites that have disappeared because of people getting into fights. The other users get caught in the crossfire, and the site is the ultimate victim. I DO NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN ON GATCHAMANIA. When SJ first posted her idea, she had no response to it. This is because many people (including myself) did not like the idea (for reasons that I think you all know by now) but we did not want to hurt SJ's feelings. After awhile, when no one responded, I'm pretty sure she figured out that no one was interested, and the thread died. Maddy revived the thread and was excited about it, and again, many people did not respond. No one wants to post anything hurtful or argumentative here, and saying 'I don't like your idea.' is just something that most of us here aren't comfortable with. It's killing me that we're basically having to say that now, because it's just so contrary to what we've always done. For my part, I had just assumed that this would die a slow death when the three organizers saw how little positive response there was. Instead, I woke up one morning to find huge rules and nominations threads everywhere. I was willing to just ignore it and let it go on, but then I was nominated. At that point I was in a bind. Should I allow the nomination to hold, thereby tacitly agreeing with the awards, or not? As you know, I decided to withdraw my nomination. All I stated was that I didn't want to be a part of the awards. I was still hoping that I could withdraw without causing any hard feelings or discomfort on the board. To be fair, if I had not been nominated, I would never have said anything. I simply did not (and still don't) want to rock the boat. Clearly, there have been hard feelings, and since this is what I was trying to avoid in the first place, it hurts me as well. I would love it if we could simply 'agree to disagree' on this one issue. It certainly isn't the be-all and end-all of the site. We have the IFs, episode reviews, chat, news, and our many threads praising and encouraging new writers. Let's focus on the things we all enjoy, instead of the one thing where we're not in perfect agreement.

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I can see both sides to this and can see how hard this is on many people for different reasons. I have been a member of this site from the start like many others and have loved seeing the talented new people join and see/read their work as it has grown from nervous people who were so obviously talented but because of past behaviour were afriad to post their work. The atmosphere here has been and I am sure will continue to be absolutely amazing in encouraging new talents in both art and writing. This is the first time something like this has been done on the boards and it is a great idea for flagging up fics we have read and that have left a tremendous impact. As with anything new we learn from mistakes as we go. Maybe those who do not want to be nominated can email the address and express that to the organisers and their wishes be respected something that is the norm for this board. Likewise the organisers can continue with what they have started taking on board the request about notifying nominees in advance and allowing them to decline should they wish to. I am not sure if this would solve the hurt feelings surrounding this but I do know that both sides only meant good things by posting on this forum their feelings. I hope this post does not offend or upset anyone because that is not my intention.

I'm trying to be very careful on what I type here. I do wish that all of this had come out more clearly before we started. After thinking about everything that has been said, I've come up with a bunch of should've, could've, would'ves on both sides. This really isn't worth destroying the good relationships we've built. We did this because it is a good way to increase fandom participation. When it is well done, everyone wins, even those who don't get awards. That's one of the reasons why we had three pages of ideas to run through. I'll admit to missreading or not reading the implied parenthetical ("I really don't think this is a good idea") in the three posts made about too many choices. We took those posts on face value and try to incorporate those feelings into our structure. I just wish I knew what to do now.

I wasn't going to post anything on this for several reasons, one of them being that I am so new here, but I just had to put my two-cents worth in. Many fandoms do awards, some better than others, but they do them with some success. One thing I think that at least one fandom I know does is they have a post mortume after each year's contest to see what went wrong and what went right. That sounds like it would be a great idea in this case. Another thing that works is a more private nomination process. Before the nom goes public, the nominee is notified privately and chose to accept or decline the nom, no questions asked. The main purpose for any fanfic awards should be to get people to read stories they might not otherwise read and to feed the authors with reviews. That's what I am hoping to get from these awards, a list of stories I not read but will now because someone said hey check this out. Yes I know there are threads that do that, but here they're all in one place and easy to find. Yeah, I get bent sometimes when I've had a story nominated and it doesn't win, but I gotten new readers and that's what really should count. I'm about the thinest skinned person you'll ever meet,but I love fanfic awards. Just knowing people, and new people at that, are reading makes me happy. I'll shut up now. Like I said, probably not my place, but I hate to see people tearing themselves, or others, up over such a relatively minor thing.

Not wanting to hurt feelings is an admirable thing. Wanting these boards to be a place that is welcoming to all is an even more admirable thing. However - remember that these are discussion boards, and if the only opinions ever expressed are those of agreement to everything, then discussion rapidly becomes a victim of fear. On boards where things have degenerated badly into recriminations and name calling, you will almost always find that it's not been as a result of honest and open discussion. There's always been one person at the back of it, making provocative remarks and generally trolling the board. It has happened here, and Cep was very quick to ban the person who was doing it (to all of our relief). We must also remember that these are written discussions. We can't see your body language and pick up on your tone of voice, to discover hidden meanings. If somebody writes "I don't know how to choose" or "I wouldn't know how to choose" that's how it will be interpreted. To be honest, Cloud, nobody was brushing you or Springie aside. When you made your comments, they were being taken exactly as you had written them - and yes. It is hard to choose from so many good fics. How do you choose, though, which ones to click on that "favorite" button on a fic site? Or which ones to bookmark their exact location so that you can go? Each of those things is a personal and subjective decision. As is the decision to post somewhere and recommend that people read a fic. TJ made a point that she chose not to comment on this thread because she didn't agree with the idea. Again - we get to that whole non-verbal communication thing again. We have only what you write to give us clues - so just because you don'e comment doesn't mean we will automatically think "Oh that person doesn't agree." More likely the thought is not even given at all! There are plenty of threads I haven't contrbuted to because the topic either didn't interest me or I felt that I had nothing constructive to contribute. That doesn't mean that I agree or disagree with what is being discussed - I merely didn't want to share my views, and I would hate people to think that my non-participation automatically meant that I disagreed with the topic in question. What truly saddens me is that there have obviously been private discussions on this and still when the question was given as 'shall we go ahead' nothing was said - not even a PM to those who were keen saying "hang on here are some objections that we have". You know, that hurts me more than anything else. If those objections had been raised here, it's entirely likely that nothing would have gone ahead. Raising them now - and especially continued discussion on the nominations threads - makes everybody concerned look foolish. Cloud, you said: "The only reason I started posting stories was because I was ensured my work would not be judged." As writers, whenever we post a fic, we are asking for judgement. We are asking for people to read our work and make a judgement themselves as to what they think of it. When somebody recommends a fic, it is because their judgement of that fic is that it's good enough that they want other people to read it too. In all this, there is only one comment tht I truly take objection to.

Comment from TJ in nominations thread The motivation behind these 'awards' runs counter to that environment, and is against everything I believe about supporting new authors and encouraging new writers to post their fics. This is why I pulled out.

The sole motivtion - as stated in this very thread - is to recognise the work of the writers in our fandom. I cannot see how this runs counter to an environment where we want to encourage people to write and to post their works. IMHO the worst thing we, as a community, could do to a writer is to encourage them to post something without giving them honest feedback when they ask for it here. You'll notice with the nominations that we deliberately asked for just the nomination - no reasons as to why, etc. That is so that people could make their own decision as to whether they like a fic or not. There is no secret agenda. No hidden decision makers. This is lovers of fic nominating and then (if necessary) voting for fics that they enjoy and wanting to recognise the hard work that the author of that fic has put into writing it. It's not about perfection or who is the better writer. People have nominated fics because they enjoyed them - because that fic spoke to them and moved them in some way. Yes- the technical things like spelling and grammar are there; but those thechnical things should be there anyway! And in the end? Well, they get a hearty "hooray" from everybody and a graphc that they can do with what they wish. What they also get, however, is people going to read their work and tell them how much they appreciate what they do. As it is, I know that I'm feeling like I've done something mind-bogglingly wrong and am being punished for that. I know that SJ feels pretty much the same way and yes, our feelings have been hurt. Not because people disagree with the idea, but because that disagreement wasn't spoken in the initial discussions, but when the idea had moved into production (as it were) and that it was brought up in nominations. Does it mean that I want to run away from here? No. Does it mean that I don't consider those who disagree with me friends? Hell no. If I discarded as a friend everybody who disagreed with me, I'd be a very lonely friendless person! The question that is now raised is "Do we continue"? Well, there are two ways to look at this. The first is that we, as a community, say "Well, it's out there now, and whatever our feelings, we stand as a community and show a united front of support to everybody." Whether the awards are given again next year is another thing. Given the opposition probably not. The second way we can proceed is to scrap them and this becomes yet another fandom idea that falls by the wayside. This really is heartbreaking for those of us who support this. The only reason that this idea was raised here was because this is the sort of community that supports and encourages writers. Because members of this community go out of our way to bring to the attention of all of us fics that we believe deserve to be read. In only two other communities have I ever come across such a supportive writing group - one of them only died with the disappearance of MSN groups, and the other just had people move on (and many of the denizens of those communities are here as well). AT this point, I am so tempted to just say "chuck it" because it's hard to remain enthusiastic in the face of disapproval like this. ON the other hand- I like to finish what I start (yeah, yeah, fics will get there eventually!) and can only see benefit for this Community to show follow through with this Sorry for this to be so long - it's actually taken me a couple of hours to write so that I get what I want to say down in a way that (I hope) does not offend anybody.

I haven't really been following this. But I am not quite sure how authors' feelings are supposed to be hurt? Is it the pain of not being chosen? Is it the feeling of being scrutinised? This forum has been greatly encouraging of budding authors from the start, and has generally maintained a very non-critical culture. This isn't a forum that pulls stories apart. This is a forum that values ideas and creativity above grammar. We have people posting fics here whose first language isn't even english, think how nerve wracking that would be, and the level of comfort required on the forum for someone to do that? I also think that the idea of informing nominees beforehand is impractical. There are plenty of great authors who have moved on from the fandom, and whose email addresses probably don't work any more. Are they to be left out because they aren't contactable? A few years back, we had a discussion about IFing with other authors' interpretations of the characters, and I objected to that because it really could cause hurt feelings. I've been in this fandom long enough to know that some people's work is deeply personal and cathartic and that misinterpretation of their characters could cause them genuine upset. But this really is a different thing. This is voting for stories on their merits. As long as it doesn't turn into a popularity contest, or delve into deep criticism or even analysis of the nominees before judging, how are the authors getting hurt?

What Meridian said. For what it's worth, I was deeply flattered that people liked my fic enough to nominate it. Votes? I genuinely wouldn't have cared. There are better authors than me in the fandom. I've deleted everything else I typed because I don't think it's possible to say it without offending someone. Maddy, SJ, I'm sorry if I have made your life difficult. It didn't even occur to me that briefly saying why I like a fic was wrong. I'll be over at yahoogroups.

Cathrl ... You didn't do anything wrong, you don't need to apologise.

[unrecoverable text]

I'm new to this, so I basically left it to everyone else to work out the details. When the 'awards' threads went up, I presumed the preliminaries had been completed, and any glitches would be cleared up as time passed. My problem is that I have liked a lot of fics, for a variety of reasons, and it would be hard to choose. I hope that we can find a solution that everyone can agree with. I would like to see this succeed, but if it doesn't, I'd like to know that it wasn't for lack of effort on our parts.

OK, I think it is time for me to step in as it were. Firstly I am a little disappointed that people withheld their objections to such an idea, even to myself privately if need be and decided to leave it to the last minute before basically making a mockery of the idea behind these awards, despite the hard work of others. If ever you have an objection to something you should state it immediately, people are not mind readers. Having said this I do not want people to feel that a culture of favouritism will develop because of these awards or that they will be used as a tool of "one up man ship" over a particular person or group. Quite rightly Gatchamania has always been a place to encourage and not detract from authors old and new and I can understand the concern a "competition" could be seen as a negative step in this regard but the awards team have been very careful about this. If you genuinely do not wish to participate as a nominee then please inform the awards team or myself now and we will respect your wish. As for future nominees, if they are members of this site the awards team will ask that member first if they would accept a nomination (with a 30 day notice, failure to reply will mean a nomination), if however they are not members of this site then the nominations may be posted without such notice. Any complaints will be directed to me and not posted up for the scrutiny of all as has happened so far, since it only leads to bad blood and upset feelings. I hope I have made myself very clear.

Fair enough, Cep...I think this is a good compromise...

Thanks, Cep. To reach the Awards team as a group, and to do so privately, we can be messaged at: gatchamaniac@hotmail.com I will step up on behalf of the awards team and say we will definitely take on this new guideline and inform any Gatchamania members nominated in advance of posting links to fics. This will require nominators to please message the team at the email address listed above, so that we may ensure this new guideline is met. If you wish to remain off the nomination list, please let us know at the address above, and we will then filter any nominations that will come through. I will gather with the Awards team to extend the nomination deadline to allow for a decent "reply or not" time frame between close of nominations and final voting. Thanks again, Cep. Much appreciated!

I am so releved this is sorted out now after all the hard work the three of you have out in

Firebird, Garnet, thank you for the great suggestions. If, and right now that is a big If, we try this again, they will certainly feature prominently in our discussion.