Think about what would happen if the makers of Gatchaman put Condor Joe in charge of the team instead of the Ken the Eagle.. Do you think this would have been a good thing or a bad thing and what results do you think would have happened!!!

The producers, or Nambu? I think it's fairly clear (at least in the early eps) that Joe isn't really a good overall leader. he doesn't have a lot of patience for people who can't keep up, and he's a little too trigger happy on the bird missiles. In episode 5 they ran out of BMs because of this, and I can see that happening every episode if Joe were in charge.

Yes, and in episode 11, if Joe were in charge he probably would have blasted Red Impulse with a bird missile, depriving Ken of his whole angsty father-son story arc!

Everything would be destroyed by missiles and the team would be constantly on the hunt to kill every green goon out there ...

At least all the cuddly little animals will be saved.

And the team would no longer be called Team Gatchaman, But Team Condor or something like that.

And they would say "sometimes one, sometimes five, the reddish-brown and blue shadow that slips in unseen."

Originally posted by lborgia88 the reddish-brown and blue shadow that slips in unseen."

I think you mean, 'the reddish brown and indigo shadow that slips in with guns blazing'.

Originally posted by lborgia88 And they would say "sometimes one, sometimes five, the reddish-brown and blue shadow that slips in unseen."

And with Joe I suspect it would be more one than five. Although Ken did that as well I guess, (went off on his own)

Now, the big question is, if Joe had been the leader, would Jun have been interested in him instead of Ken (or would it have made no difference) and would Joe have (unlike Ken) done something?

Originally posted by Transmute Jun The producers, or Nambu? I think it's fairly clear (at least in the early eps) that Joe isn't really a good overall leader. he doesn't have a lot of patience for people who can't keep up, and he's a little too trigger happy on the bird missiles. In episode 5 they ran out of BMs because of this, and I can see that happening every episode if Joe were in charge.

. TJ your being to serious... I not looking ta him being a good leader...but what IF the producers decided to make the Condor G-1. Wouldn't the outcomes and conflicts be even more interesting! And Red Impulse was Joes long lost father!!! LOL Joe run's up to Red Impulse who just about to go and save the world... Jun calls out..."Joe...he's your father!!!" Joe grimaces as he looks into the eyes of the man he search for since he was four years old. "I'm sorry son..." RI's eyes brimming with tears. "I felt I couldn't be a father to you..." Joe's eyes narrow and darken... "You F@$* Bastard!!" He yells. "You were right under my nose all along...F@#@ You!!!" "But Joe... you wanted to ger revenge for his death." Ken says scratching his head in confusion at Joe's reaction. "Why don't you give him a hug?" "That mongrel doesn't deserve a hug," Joe hissed and he violently balls his right hand into a fist to take out the old man. He hits RI sending him flying into the rocket... RI in a dazed state accidently hits the big red take off button...Now he has no choice he has to save the world." Bloody kid, he has to learn to control that temper." RI fumes... A few moments later as the team watch the rocket leave the shelter... "You know jun, thanks for that, I've waited fourteen years to kick his butt for taking off and leaving me and mum with no money and a shack that a dog wouldn't live in..." Joe is still calming down..he keeps balling his fists as his chest heaves from the emotions running rapidly through his body. "Maybe I shouldn't have hit him. He is dad after all, he just pisses me off so much some times, and that was the last straw..." He says to Ken in hindsight. Folds his arms and sighs heavily... "Now I'll have to go and revenge his death I suppose..."

Ha ha! You've come up with the perfect AU version, Ebony!

Originally posted by Transmute Jun

Originally posted by lborgia88 the reddish-brown and blue shadow that slips in unseen."

I think you mean, 'the reddish brown and indigo shadow that slips in with guns blazing'.

Would he have to have to whistle a tune before slipping in with guns blazing? And what about Jason as leader or the other Condors as well in the other series that would have to be changed?

Originally posted by Metaliant And what about Jason as leader or the other Condors as well in the other series that would have to be changed?

Well, we all know that if Joe had been in charge in the OAVs he would have blown up the Galactor mecha right away, and much of the plot of the first episode wouldn't be there.

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne Joe run's up to Red Impulse who just about to go and save the world... Jun calls out..."Joe...he's your father!!!" Joe grimaces as he looks into the eyes of the man he search for since he was four years old. "I'm sorry son..." RI's eyes brimming with tears. "I felt I couldn't be a father to you..." Joe's eyes narrow and darken... "You F@$* Bastard!!" He yells. "You were right under my nose all along...F@#@ You!!!" "But Joe... you wanted to ger revenge for his death." Ken says scratching his head in confusion at Joe's reaction. "Why don't you give him a hug?" "That mongrel doesn't deserve a hug," Joe hissed and he violently balls his right hand into a fist to take out the old man. He hits RI sending him flying into the rocket... RI in a dazed state accidently hits the big red take off button...Now he has no choice he has to save the world." Bloody kid, he has to learn to control that temper." RI fumes... A few moments later as the team watch the rocket leave the shelter... "You know jun, thanks for that, I've waited fourteen years to kick his butt for taking off and leaving me and mum with no money and a shack that a dog wouldn't live in..." Joe is still calming down..he keeps balling his fists as his chest heaves from the emotions running rapidly through his body. "Maybe I shouldn't have hit him. He is dad after all, he just pisses me off so much some times, and that was the last straw..." He says to Ken in hindsight. Folds his arms and sighs heavily... "Now I'll have to go and revenge his death I suppose..."

I really like this Ebony. Only, IMO, I do not think it would progress this far. For some reason I think RI would have acknowledged Joe as his son much earlier, both of them being of the same temperament. I think RI would have enjoyed seeing Joe as leader over Ken and would have praised and assisted the team more, instead of the demeaning way he did treat them.

Nahhh CD, they just would had more fist fights!!! The show would have ended 10 minutes earlier because the Condor would have had guns blasting and Ken would have been trying to get him to calm down, the team would have gone through more ships... The list goes on....

How many times would this happen to the team had Joe been in charge??? That is after the Phoenix would get blasted down, cause all the BM would be used up shooting not so important targets for fun!

Can you imagine anyone disobeying the Condors orders... Does this mean Ken would have to run off on his own more...

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne Can you imagine anyone disobeying the Condors orders... Does this mean Ken would have to run off on his own more...

Yeah, Ken would run off to Nambu and tattletale on Joe!

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne Can you imagine anyone disobeying the Condors orders... Does this mean Ken would have to run off on his own more...

Nahh, here again, I think Ken is too much of the soldier. He would follow orders of his superior rather than run off. Although in the later part of my AU I do have Mark and Jason in role reversal positions, Jason in Command and Mark in a lower rank (moving up to second in command). Mark does relax and become more the wild one, racing off after Spectran goons, while Jason has to remain in control of the situation.

It's possible that if Ken weren't the one bearing the ultimate responsibility for the success or failure of missions that he might be more laid back -ready, of course, to spring into action the instant Joe needs him to, but in the meantime, winking at Jun... Naah!

Originally posted by lborgia88 It's possible that if Ken weren't the one bearing the ultimate responsibility for the success or failure of missions that he might be more laid back -ready, of course, to spring into action the instant Joe needs him to, but in the meantime, winking at Jun... Naah!

Now that idea I like. Hmmm, sudden plot ideas begin to form in Clouds mind.

LB, you certainly have the right idea in mind....

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne Think about what would happen if the makers of Gatchaman put Condor Joe in charge of the team instead of the Ken the Eagle.. Do you think this would have been a good thing or a bad thing and what results do you think would have happened!!!

[FONT=comic sans ms]He will be blasting my galactor bases on a daily basis!.... [/FONT]

But then again maybe Ken would become more stressed by the Condors actions and start going over the edge sooner in the series...

Originally posted by Ladygalactor777

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne Think about what would happen if the makers of Gatchaman put Condor Joe in charge of the team instead of the Ken the Eagle.. Do you think this would have been a good thing or a bad thing and what results do you think would have happened!!!

[FONT=comic sans ms]He will be blasting my galactor bases on a daily basis!.... [/FONT]

Don't they do that anyway?

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne But then again maybe Ken would become more stressed by the Condors actions and start going over the edge sooner in the series...

Probably more likely.

I think Ken is a better leader than Joe but he's only human and sometimes he makes mistakes. But Ken's past is different than Joe as Ken was separated from his father when he was 4 (I think) and I guess that his mother died while in the hospital. Joe was older and lost them both quite suddenly and violently and nearly died himself that affected his personality. If Ken had his parents died he would have been the reckless and impulsive one on the team.

I am trying to imagine that they swap team roles and personal history, but do not swap basic personality. I think Joe in a leadership position would pull it together because while he is reckless with himself, he is not as reckless with the lives of the others. Even though he disagrees with Ken often, he more often then not ultimately obeys orders for the good of the team. But Joe is more like a blunt object then a fine thinking strategist and he would have to rely on Ken's insights and observations to assess the situation effectively. Ken would still be keeping Joe's hand off the bird missals, just as a subordinate. I think Ken would end up being the loner because his sense of duty and honor would still drive him but without having to be responsible for the others, he would have no compunctions to risking himself or holding back to stay with the team. The more I write this, the more complicated it gets.

Sometimes I wonder who had it worse. It's truly horrible to see your parents get killed in front of you, but at least Joe's parents, and Joe, were together and, presumably, happy up until his parents were killed. In Ken's case, his father went missing when he was four, but no one ever knew for certain if he was dead, and then his mother got sick and died slowly. For Ken, believing that his father is still alive after so many years means, in effect, believing that his father abandoned him. He does seem to deal with this by trying to live up to the high "ideal" that his father represents (to him anyway). Joe, naturally, is the one with the anger and desire for revenge.

My apologies gogirl, I misunderstood. I still say Ken's a better leader but sometimes Joe being more suspicious of people has saved the team on occasion.

Originally posted by Metaliant

Originally posted by Ladygalactor777

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne Think about what would happen if the makers of Gatchaman put Condor Joe in charge of the team instead of the Ken the Eagle.. Do you think this would have been a good thing or a bad thing and what results do you think would have happened!!!

[FONT=comic sans ms]He will be blasting my galactor bases on a daily basis!.... [/FONT]

Don't they do that anyway?

Originally posted by Metaliant

Originally posted by Ladygalactor777

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne Think about what would happen if the makers of Gatchaman put Condor Joe in charge of the team instead of the Ken the Eagle.. Do you think this would have been a good thing or a bad thing and what results do you think would have happened!!!

Don't they do that anyway?

[FONT=comic sans ms]He will be blasting my galactor bases on a daily basis!.... [/FONT]

Ken' character is a better leader thats for sure. Its hard to really imagine Joe as a real leader for the team. But then in reality the ones that are meant for leadership don't always end up in the role of the leader. What if their personal histories had been swapped too... mmm Ken in Fighter is more daring and he thinks things through less. This I have felt isn't just the hypershoot, but he become even more driven by his grief for the loved ones lost along the way. Something snapped. (OK I'm not a phycologist so I'm likely to be wrong.) But thats how i see it with him. He became ill, know he had to by dying and it was enough, enough to make him more impulsive.