Sorry about the dark blurry photos, I can't get any natural light right now due to night-time, and it's a little tough photographing yourself. Especially if you don't want the camera to be in front of you in the photo whilst using a mirror. I'm still in the drafting stages - the goal was to make the body part of the costume without any zips, in such a manner that I could wear it casually without too much fuss. Yes, I'm that much of a geek. And I hate zips. I started with a very large scrap of non-stretch cotton cloth and mostly bluffed my way through a pattern shape using my measurements, an old skirt and a singlet top. Anyway - so far my mistakes ammount to; the hem is longer at the front and back than at the side seam, so I need to straighten the curve out a whole lot on my next draft. The way I finished the neck and armholes with bias binding doesn't look even remotely good because it sticks out so much, so I'll need to have a proper lining, unless someone can suggest a better finish. It's winter here so I was thinking of making one from polar fleece and leaving the edges raw or just putting a zig-zag stitch over them. The bust area isn't fitted enough, it's pretty horribly flat fronted, like an apron. I need to include a seam that will add shape. I need some better fabric paint, this stuff doesn't cover well, dries solid, and smells horrible. Probably could have gotten better results from white-out. The logo is a little too big and too low down too. On the up side, it didn't need a zip. Other than basic fitting issues, I need some suggestions - is it too long, too short, should I raise the neckline further? I know the skirt is pretty flared (more than I meant it to be), it is a non-stretch fabric so I thought I'd play it safe... does it look okay? Should I throw this pattern style with side seams only aside completely and try making one with two front seams?

Oh oh, another Swan. It seems that the Condors have a bit competition a tthe top. Welcome Guy and you look very lovely. Are you another Black Swan by any chance?

Hello Guy! That cos is looking very good at the moment, how long do you think it will take you to make the amendments you mentioned? Can't wait to see the finished article. Are you making this for an event or just for fun? I think for the cut it really depends on what you feel comfortable in. Personally I think the skirt would need to be brought up a few inches to show more leg and I imagine when you have worked the bust line the waist line should come in to properly to fit you, I think the flaring you have is good . Whenever I see or imagine a Swan all the images are of a tight fitting, alluring dress that really shows the figure beneath. Here is what I imagine you are looking to go for on the main dress, http://www.gatchamania.net/gallery.php?action=view_image&id=5 Although as a Black Swannie, you may feel it necessary to make it a bit more risque Again though its entirely what you think would be good, this is just my opinion.

I'm really impressed with what you've already done, and I can't offer much in the way of advice because I'm completely hopeless at sewing clothes myself. I think we have a few members here, though, who could help you. Please post more pictures later!

Originally posted by Guy The bust area isn't fitted enough, it's pretty horribly flat fronted, like an apron. I need to include a seam that will add shape.

Hi, Guy, and welcome! I don't know a whole lot about sewing, but I do know how to do simple alterations to make a basic garment fit better. Have you thought about putting darts in around the bust area to make it more fitted? I do that with some store-boughts if I don't like the hang. This link will show you how if you haven't tried it before. I'm impressed with the pics. It looks like you're well on your way to a great costume.

You look lovely, Guy! I know nothing about sewing, but since you are a black swannie, I imagine you can make a few adjustments in the original costume. I agree that the skirt could go a bit shorter...and do you have the ever important panties? LOL I guess black swan wouldn't wear the white ones...red, maybe? Are you doing wings, too? Looks great so far!

Wow, that is fantastic! I love what yo've done so far! How did you do the logo? ITA about the skirt length. Although you could potentially keep it longer and make it a little more form fitting, then lengthen the wings to make it seem proportioned in the same way as the shorter eon. Does that make any sense?

Hello Guy Sorry I can not offer any advice for your costume but it looks like it is coming along well. Another Black Swan Hmmmm?

Hi guy...i hope this helps you... *A good two way stretch fabric means you won't need a zipper. *OK you need darts to give shape for the bust. *Measure the hem from the floor up, it makes it straighter. A bias cut satin won't need a zipper if its cut on the stretchiest part of the cloth. its tricky to do it though.

Wow, I honestly didn't expect so many replies so quickly. Thanks for all the kind words and support, it does wonders for the ego, lol. Now lets see if I can reply to all your questions - Metaliant - I was debating whether I should choose swan or eagle - I wish I could have chosen two. Then again, if I could have chosen multiple I would have gone for the whole cast. The reason the costume is black is because that was the largest scrap of cloth I had in my leftovers bag. Next largest was purple plush fur, and for some reason I don't really see that in a swan costume. Maybe some kind of evil corrupted swan, but not just swan. I'm thinking of keeping it black though, because then I can be a complete and utter geek and wear it to work under my work shirt. Cep - It took me a good few hours to make it, but I'm probably going to need some more fabric before I make another, so, once I have cloth I can make the adjusted one in the better part of a morning. I'm making it for fun, 'though I suppose I could wear it to manifest if I go this year. I'd want to make a helmet for it if I were going of course. How the hell do people make them anyway? Fibreglass or something? I guess I could try making one out of paper mache... I didn't really want to use stretch fabric either, I don't have an overlocker, and using a zig-zag stich on the seams of stretch fabric makes me nervous. I'd hate to be wearing it and then suddenly it split open... but it looks like my options are kind of restricted to stretch fabrics if I want to be able to move in such a tight skirt without a split, and have a perfectly form fitting dress without a zip, eh? lborgia88 - Thanks! Fairlight - I've forgotten the terminology for everything because I haven't sewn clothing since high-school so what I meant by 'seam to add form' was dart. The site is a good reminder of how to do things - I was going to do it wrong. You've saved me a whole lot of frustration! Springie - I didn't actually think about the panties when I was making it, I guess I wasn't planning on showing mine off a whole lot, lol. I suppose that I should get some I'm not scared to show off though if I'm going to shorten the skirt any, people are going to see them. I wonder what people would do if I were wearing voltron undies or something? Transmute Jun - I get what you mean by making the wings longer in proportion to the skirt, it's actually a pretty good idea. As for the logo, I painted it on. I would have silkscreened it, but I'd need to borrow my friend's silkscreening gear and get someone to help me keep everything flat and straight whilst I did everything. Anyway, the fabric paint I used was horrible, it dried really stiff, probably because I had to go over and over it to get it to look nice and neat instead of patchy and horrible. I'll need to find a different brand for my next one. For some stupid reason the fabric store nearby only stocks black and white fabric paints though, so I'll probably need to travel to get some in red. Cloud Dancer - Thanks! Ebony Swanne - I get kind of worried about using stretch fabrics - I don't have an overlocker, and the closest stitch my dodgey old machine has to a stretch stitch is a zig-zag, and those look pretty unprofessional. If you have any advice on how to keep the seams from breaking due to stretch that would be awesomely helpful. With the hem, the problem was cut into the dress rather than from poor measurement - I cut the curve of the hem way too deeply so the side seam was going to be too short no matter what - you can't really see it from the angle of the photos, but if I straightened the hem to match the length at the side seam I'd have permanently visible underwear. I've seen the bias cut technique before - it looks very tricky indeed, and from what I can see you would need a lot more fabric than just cutting normally. Main problem with that being, cloth is stupidly expensive here - it costs more to make clothes than to buy them, and I'm on a pretty tight budget, so I'd probably have to buy the most horrible low quality satin in the store to do it... and that just wouldn't be doing the swan justice. Well, unless they had some nice big pieces of satin in the offcuts bin, but the chances are pretty low.

Guy, I just have to say that I am tremendously impressed at all of the work you are putting into this! I am making a Swan costume too, but I... uh... well, I'm commissioning it from someone who knows WTH they're doing because my stuff is crap. I made Gatch costumes for my kids and they're based on pajamas.... just to give you an idea. So keep working on it! You inspire me!

Teeheehee... Voltron undies would be hillarious! wish they had made Gatchaman underoos back in the 70's...you could always paint a red "G" on the back! LOL

Don't worry T-Jun, I will keep working on it! And I saw the costumes you made for your kids, they're not nearly as bad as you make out. Sewing doesn't take a lot of skill, it's just a lot of information you need to remember really - getting used to how the shapes work, and how the fabrics move, and the techniques to sort of sculpt the fabric... which I haven't even remotely mastered yet. Whenever I make things I have to make a sort of throw-away version first to make all my mistakes on, then I can start again and make something that actually works. If you ever decide to make another costume, try doing that, it really makes life easier when you don't have to worry about making mistakes. And Springie, I think you may be on to something! If I can get my hands on that silkscreening gear and a helper I could have some pretty professional looking Gatchaman undies made up. Maybe I should make some with... damn inconsistant translations, which name do I use? Anyway, with the eagle on them. All kinds of silly and girly right there

Zig zag stitch is the only way on an ordinary sewing machine for stretch knit. You need the give in the stitch to make it work out for you. I suggest that you use a satin cut on the bias then, have you thought of doing a side invisible zip??? It won't show but it will allow you to make the bodice more figure hugging. Though cut in the bias the material hugs your figure better. I would line it with light weight lining 'silk', make the lining hem line 2cm shorter than the dress. Do you have a pattern at all???

When cutting out a hem curve you have to line up the seams of your paper pattern to smooth out the dip.

Yeah, I know zig zag is the only way for normal machines, but it looks so horrible and unprofessional... You know when the fabric pulls at the seam and the seam gets that funny sort of toothy look to it because of the way the zig-zag stitch holds it together? It's just so ugly. I was just kind of hoping someone had a technique for working with stretch fabric that wouldn't give that ugly look to the seams. I've done a bunch of tests on different kinds of stretch fabric, and I just can't figure out how to stop that from happening. And a side zip... wouldn't that interfere with the way the material sat around the body? Making that one seam a bunch stiffer... it wouldn't wrinkle the same way as the other side. Plus I hate zips... so much fliddling around to pin them in right, then having to change the machine foot and needle alignment... and then if you mess it up and get it crooked it's so tedious to have to unpick and redo it... Anyway, that's why I want to avoid it. Plus, all the other zips I've ever inserted into anything wound up being itchy for some reason. And no, no pattern. Well, now I have one because I made the dress and I can use that for future patterns, but I didn't start with a pattern. I made it up as I went along using a skirt and a singlet top as reference for the shape. I guess I should keep my eye out for large scraps of decent quality satin in the offcut bins. Although I guess anything which had been woven rather than knitted would have a similar effect, maybe to a lesser extent though, because most woven fabrics have more stretch on the diagonal. Hmm. This gives me some ideas. I'll have to go through my scrap bag again and see if I can get some more big scraps to experiment on. Edit: I found 4 bits big enough to make a dress from, 2 are super thin lining material, one purple satin, one black matte satin, one is a heavy woolen plaid in green and brown which is very rough and itchy, and just barely enough of that same black cotton. I guess I'll experiment making a dress with a lining, but I don't have enough to try bias cut anything.

The only way to get stretch looking good is with an overlocker and practice. It takes some skill to sew certain fabrics... I have 20 yrs of experience in sewing, and I have done tailoring and pattern-making.(Bridal and formal wear mainly.)It might look easy, but not always. Techniques take time to learn, but if you keep doing it you will get better at handling the material and you learn its nature...and all materials have their own way of draping. If you think stretch fabric is hard to sew...try silk chiffon cut on the bias... Using clothing is a good way to start pattern-making.

Originally posted by Guy Whenever I make things I have to make a sort of throw-away version first to make all my mistakes on, then I can start again and make something that actually works. If you ever decide to make another costume, try doing that, it really makes life easier when you don't have to worry about making mistakes.

Actually, I did that. I basically bought double the material I needed for the wings and belts, just in case I totally screwed up and needed to start over! And I didn't sew at all on those things... I used a glue gun! I don't even own a sewing machine and my sewing skills are limited to stitching on a button. This is why all of you seamstresses amaze me... it's like a whole different world....

Originally posted by Transmute Jun up I don't even own a sewing machine and my sewing skills are limited to stitching on a button. This is why all of your seamstresses amaze me... it's like a whole different world....

I agree! I'm in the same boat as you, TJ. I actually had to take "Home Economics" in grades 7, 8 and 9, with half the year spent cooking and the other half spent sewing, so one would think I'd be better. I found the sewing machines hard to control, and the fabric hard to manipulate. I'd be trying to put in a seam, while scrambling to keep the fabric aligned correctly and trying to keep the speed steady with the foot pedal, without much success. Making a skirt in grade nine, I managed to sew the zipper in upside down, and then I basted the waistband to the hem. I spent a lot of time with a seam ripper. Then I accidentally chopped a hole in the side of the skirt with pinking shears and had to remove and reposition the pockets to cover it. By the time I was done, I hated that skirt so much that I never wore it. I am in awe of those of you can really sew!

Originally posted by lborgia88

Originally posted by Transmute Jun up I don't even own a sewing machine and my sewing skills are limited to stitching on a button. This is why all of your seamstresses amaze me... it's like a whole different world....

I agree! I'm in the same boat as you, TJ. I actually had to take "Home Economics" in grades 7, 8 and 9, with half the year spent cooking and the other half spent sewing, so one would think I'd be better. I found the sewing machines hard to control, and the fabric hard to manipulate. I'd be trying to put in a seam, while scrambling to keep the fabric aligned correctly and trying to keep the speed steady with the foot pedal, without much success. Making a skirt in grade nine, I managed to sew the zipper in upside down, and then I basted the waistband to the hem. I spent a lot of time with a seam ripper. Then I accidentally chopped a hole in the side of the skirt with pinking shears and had to remove and reposition the pockets to cover it. By the time I was done, I hated that skirt so much that I never wore it. I am in awe of those of you can really sew!

Oh I only rmeember the home ec. classes in grades 7 and 8. I can not remember them in grade 9. (Edit: I think it was called Family Studies and we actually studied the dymanics of families.) My favourtie part was the half year of cooking class. The sewing part I made a mess of. I think I made a skirt as well and then never wore it, because it looked so bad. *Shudder* How I wish I could forget those days.

You know, I wish I'd had the opportunity to take Home Ec. I think I would have enjoyed the cooking part at least, and it would be nice to have learned how to use a sewing machine somewhere along the way... sigh... But I went to a very small private school in Toronto that didn't have a lot of options like that.

Originally posted by Guy Wow, I honestly didn't expect so many replies so quickly. Thanks for all the kind words and support, it does wonders for the ego, lol. Now lets see if I can reply to all your questions - Metaliant - I was debating whether I should choose swan or eagle - I wish I could have chosen two. Then again, if I could have chosen multiple I would have gone for the whole cast. The reason the costume is black is because that was the largest scrap of cloth I had in my leftovers bag. Next largest was purple plush fur, and for some reason I don't really see that in a swan costume. Maybe some kind of evil corrupted swan, but not just swan. I'm thinking of keeping it black though, because then I can be a complete and utter geek and wear it to work under my work shirt.

Oh, don't worry about being a black Swan Guy, there's nothing wrong them, as we got one already but having two is even better.

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne The only way to get stretch looking good is with an overlocker... ...hard to sew...try silk chiffon cut on the bias...

I don't have an overlocker - so I don't want to use stretch fabrics. You just explained my reasoning with 20 years of pro experience behind it and better wording than I could have come up with I only have 8 years experience behind me, making costumes and clothing for myself and friends, and a lot of that experience was from school (started in year 7). And I honestly don't have any professional training, I got all I know from school and making stuff myself. I've sewn chiffon before (not bias cut though) - year 12, the 'final project' I did was a chiffon blouse, satin skirt, and one of those waist only corset thingies. The blouse was kind of like those poet shirt things, only with an off the shoulder neckline, and a whole lot looser. Fabric was constantly slipping and getting out of line no matter how many pins I put in, on all of them. The satin was possibly the worst for slipping all over the place, although it was a much simpler shape so it wasn't so bad. I had to constantly readjust the fabric, and then it turned out that after I had finished the tension was wrong and it had pulled at the seams and made them gather a little, but you could only really notice it when it was the right way in. After sewing the skirt and blouse, sewing the mini corset, boning and all, seemed like a cake walk. Other tough fabrics I have worked with include vinyl. A fabric you can't put pins in because the holes don't go away. And if you mess up once, you probably have to re-cut the pieces you messed up on for the same reason. Then there's plush fur. That's a royal pain too. And velour. And we all know how irritating directional patterned fabric can be. I can make all of those look professional on my machine however, because I can sew all of them with a straight stitch, and I can keep them from fraying with a zig-zag, or that technique... the one where you sew it with the seams on the outside, then fold them over and sew on the inside so the raw edge is inside the resulting tube... you know what I mean? Raglin seam? French seam? I can't remember the name. I don't ever have to tell anyone what I'm doing, so I've forgotten all the terms, lol. I just can't work with stretch fabric and make it look nice due to the limitations of my machine. It's not hard, as with most fabrics, nearly all problems can be completely avoided with careful pinning and cutting. I honestly don't think working with tough fabric really takes 'skill' though, just a lot of care and attention to detail - most people fail because they're too lazy to unpick and resew a poorly sewn seam. Or they can't be bothered cutting the pattern out with care, or don't see the point in pinning things properly... I guess that's getting way off topic though eh? Debating about what I think requires skill and bragging about my experience, lol. T-Jun - ...you just warped my mind. You did those costumes with a glue gun? How the hell did you get them to stay together with glue? lborgia - hey, I think everyone's made mistakes like that before. When you're inexperienced you don't know where the 'danger zones' are so you're not necessarily paying enough attention to what you're doing then so it's VERY easy to go 'WHOOPSIE I just destroyed all my hard work.'. I even do that sometimes now. An example; 10 minutes ago I accidentally cut along the wrong line I had drawn onto my new experiment at the jun costume. There's only enough of that cloth there for one dress, so I'm gonna have to work around it. Plus there's a moth hole in one of the pieces I didn't notice, and now that's part of my dress. It's an experiment though so I just have to pretend those aren't there (lucky!). Really, it's not that hard, don't let one bad experience in school stop you. clouddancer - I only ever made two things in my 5 years of sewing class that I wound up wearing, Thing one was a turtleneck, thing two was a backpack. Both of those things I made in my first year. That's 4 years where I made nothing I wore more than once. Those pattern books can be so misleading. You really don't know what you're getting because you can't put it on first and see how good or bad it looks. A good photographer can make anything look good, a good model can make anything look good, and an artist can mislead you completely if the picture is a drawing rather than photo. Anyways, back to work, I'm making a costume from the plaid fabric. Going to insert a lining, see how it looks.

Originally posted by Guy T-Jun - ...you just warped my mind. You did those costumes with a glue gun? How the hell did you get them to stay together with glue?

Well, the gloves and 'boots' were purchased separately, and the main parts of the uniforms were PJs (purchased separately). So the big things I had to do were the wings and belts. The wings were a bit of a fuzzy-ish fabric that adhered really well with the glue gun. The belts were a kind of vinyl, but it was fuzzy on the underside, so I glued the underside pieces together and it worked.

Originally posted by clouddancer My favourtie part was the half year of cooking class. The sewing part I made a mess of. I think I made a skirt as well and then never wore it, because it looked so bad. *Shudder* How I wish I could forget those days.

All I ever remembered from the cooking classes was how to make a white sauce (melt butter, stir in flour slowly, add milk, stir until it thickens) and it was the only time that I ever made fudge that actually set properly. I wish I could forget gym class too.

Originally posted by Guy lborgia - hey, I think everyone's made mistakes like that before. When you're inexperienced you don't know where the 'danger zones' are so you're not necessarily paying enough attention to what you're doing then so it's VERY easy to go 'WHOOPSIE I just destroyed all my hard work.'. I even do that sometimes now. An example; 10 minutes ago I accidentally cut along the wrong line I had drawn onto my new experiment at the jun costume. There's only enough of that cloth there for one dress, so I'm gonna have to work around it. Plus there's a moth hole in one of the pieces I didn't notice, and now that's part of my dress. It's an experiment though so I just have to pretend those aren't there (lucky!). Really, it's not that hard, don't let one bad experience in school stop you.

Hmm, my sister has a sewing machine that she would loan me, if I ever worked up the nerve to try sewing again. On the rare occasion I've had to go shopping for a long, formal dress, I've really wished I could sew because I can hardly ever find anything I like (that I can afford), and when I do, it's usually too short.

Guy I know what you mean when you say you started at school. I did textiles and design and home economics when i was at school. I started sewing when I was 10 years old. I made a dress for my younger sister. Mum finished it for me with detailing such as hand sewing. I learned to do a lot of hand sewing from that time on. I made a costume from a book and beaded the whole dress! It wasn't very good finishes on it, but mum still has the dolls and the dresses I made for them when I was 12. LOL... I made gowns from the 1780's from studying pictures in my teens... A florist thought I was nuts when had her make a miniature version of Princess Diana's Bouquet for a Barbie doll(I was just a kid, and $6.00 is a lot of money back then.) I dressed in her taffeta wedding gown Long train and petticoats. (mum said no to buying real silk) It had to be the same as Diana's... I was pedantic about it being detailed! It took me ages to bead the lace...mum still has the doll all dressed up! (And Fergie too, I studied the embroidery and made her gown too for a Barbie doll.) ITA about the chiffon losing its shape once you take the pattern off. I feel it suits things like the shirt you described... flowing and soft. Its my favourite fabric to sew! ITA about Vinyl... I'd just rather sew leather... I have wanted another black leather jacket for years!!!

Finally I finished the plaid dress! It's much much more form fitting than the first one, to the point where the sexy problems are now due to me not being as shapely as Jun, lol. It's probably too long still though. I lined it in black matte satin stuff, dunno what it's called... it was a little tricky to insert. It looks nicer than the bias binding I tried before though. Lots nicer. I still need to get some better fabric paint though so I can't paint the logo on yet... Unfortunately it's night time again so I can't take good pictures again. Bah. T-Jun - I see what you did now... I think. How did you make the neck part of the wings? Ilborgia - give it a shot! You can do it Ebonyswanne - Your barbie dress sounds really impressive! I never made doll clothes as a kid, but I did try my hand at making sock animals. None of them were particularly good though, lol. I only really started sewing in home ec. at school.

It looks good Guy!!! I prefer to line a dress over bias binding it.... Matt light weight satin makes a great lining!!! PS I love the stripped stockings...

Originally posted by lborgia88 it was the only time that I ever made fudge that actually set properly.

LB I have a super easy fudge that I make at Christmastime. It always sets. If you want, I can send you the recipie.

Looks great! And FWIW, you seem plenty shapely to me!

Originally posted by Guy T-Jun - I see what you did now... I think. How did you make the neck part of the wings?

I made the 'cape' part of the wings, then took another piece of the same fabric and made a loop/circle with it. I cut the loop once to make the neck opening. Then I glued the top of the 'cape' to the inside of the loop. It fastens with velcro. (the kind that's sticky-backed )

Thanks E-swanne I must admit, lining a dress is really worth the extra effort. And those are my favorite kinds of socks - gotta be knee high and brightly coloured or I don't like them, lol. And thanks T-Jun, you don't have to flatter me so much though, I know my figure isn't the same a Jun's - there's probably never been a person with such a nice figure. And that sticky velcro stuff... I tried sewing that once as a kid. Ruined a sewing machine, lol. The glue stuck onto the needle and got into the gears so the machine just siezed up. Ah well, my sewing teacher had said I could do it, so she had to deal with the losses, not me (so cold aren't I?). I'll see about getting some pink cloth now for the dress - think I should line in pink or white? I want a heavier cloth than that cotton I was using, the thick woolen plaid is much nicer to wear even though it's itchy. I'll probably just buy some white opera gloves or something, I tried looking up free glove patterns on the net but they all look pretty ugly, and with such a complicated thing I don't want to spend all that time making something only to find out I made something I can't use. For the boots I have a secret trick up my sleeve which may or may not turn out awesomely, but I'm gonna keep that to myself until it's done And the wings... I'm debating whether to make them flat so I can do funky show-like flying poses, or fit them to my shoulders so they look better when I'm just walking about. I want to go with the flat wings most of all... has anyone got any suggestions? And finally the belt, bracelet, helmet and weapon of choice. I'm honestly at a loss. I can't sew anything particularly thick and tough on my machine, it's just not strong enough, so I'll have to find a big wide white belt. And then there's the buckle. I could probably sculpt one out of modelling clay, make a rubber mould and set some epoxy resin in it... but I have absolutely no idea how to do that. Then there's the helmet. Assuming I could get my hands on the equipment I'd need to bend some yellow plastic into the right shape... I'm still completely lost about the rest of the helmet. The weapons... a yo-yo is a yo-yo, but none of the ones for sale currently are as big or as lop-sided as jun's, the ribbon thingy she had in GII would probably be easier to construct... but it won't be as recognisable to most people.