I was thinking about this... and i know sometimes cannon is needed, but is it really? After all it is an intricate weave to place a story inside of another plot- which is what we do when we write fanfiction. BUT how much is it needed, or should we let our own imaginations run loose more....

I think it's up to the writer. I personally loathe the "well, in canon that would never happen" comments to fics. If the writer has waded outside of the "canon" universe as long as they make it clear up front, then there really shouldn't be a problem. Fanfiction isn't something that fans have to pay money for (unlike the comics which, although good, were so AU it was barely BotP).... So what's the big deal?? I love an AU fic, myself. SJ

I don't see anything wrong with going outside of canon, if that's what the author wants to do. I have read many non-canon and tenuously canon fics that I have really enjoyed. That being said, I enjoy sticking to canon myself, if I can. There's something about filling in the missing pieces and still having it all make sense that appeals to me. Even better, I love to write 'behind the scenes' type fics, where I interweave canon eps with my story, so that next time you watch the canon ep you think that my story COULD have actually been happening. This is especially fun with BOTP, which can be sooo annoying at times with all of the cut scenes and Zark interludes. But really, it's up to the author. There are no rules in fanfic.

I usually tend to stick to the cannon, especially when I don't know the plot very well. As in Gatch case. But I do let my imagination wander free as musch as possible!As TJ said behind the scene stories are easier to write, because there aren't major action parts and we get more character building! What I hate the most in a fanfic is distorting a character's attitude, behaviour or principles. Making him too mushy. There are good stories with where that happens, but a good plot line is required. Such as putting him in an unusual situation and notice his reactions. That's one of my favourite type of fanfic! Okay, I know I am actually doing this by trying to hook Ego with the Swan. Or creating things in the Eagle's detriment! But I try to make them so they apper real in the cannon's boundaries!

There are a lot of areas that people write fanfiction in that just aren't covered by canon, for example stories relating to the Swan's childhood. However, I personally don't believe that canon puts a restriction on creativity. It just means things have to be thought around differently - if a really good fanfic idea doesn't fit the canon, then how can you change it so it fits?

SJ I like AU's as well, and your right in saying that the author has to be clear about it up front. I have had a tendency to put Tenuously canon on my archive fics, just in case I miss something important to the reader, then at least they don't start it thinking is all canon and get confused. Mmm TJ...there are no rules in fanfic!!! Thats an open statement. From the comments I have seen on other sites some people think there are... but in this crowd of writers I find that applies more. Rarely do I hear you girls say "Well thats not in canon, you should change it etc..." (By the way, thats not a comment directed to me or some personal thing etc...) I wandered into so other sites that people post original stories... you know not based of anything, more like topics such as a romance,fantasy,sci-fiction. Whhooo hooo the comments people put on those stories!!! Some were not very nice at ALL. No encouragement and some were like pages long of comments...now thats scary! Fanfic reviews from what I have seen don't pull it apart to that degree.... even if it goes off from canon.

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne Mmm TJ...there are no rules in fanfic!!! Thats an open statement. From the comments I have seen on other sites some people think there are... but in this crowd of writers I find that applies more.

Considering how many different versions there already are of Gatchaman (BOTP, G-Force, Eagle Riders etc.), we'd have to be pretty flexible about canon, wouldn't we?

I just read my last post...it was a bit wonky... I meant that we're more flexable with canon, not so worried about it.

I agree that AU can be a great read. Sometimes I think people have to remember that everyone may not view the cannon story line the same way. Still I love to read all the great stories out there. Cannon or not.

It all depends on your intended audience. Fanfic audiences always enjoy stuff that's close to canon, otherwise they wouldn't be fans of the series. Whether they enjoy stuff that's further from canon depends on the audience. Some audiences will accept anything as long as Ken and Jun get together. Some won't accept that pairing at all. I write canon, unless it's a parody. I like exploring before and after the series. The characters aren't the same, and I have to explain why. My epic starts before they've seen action. In Opportunities, the war is far behind them. During the series is too confining for my muses. I find canon easier to get into when reading. I know what to expect and there are fewer jolts. However, if you do a good job of introducing me to a good AU, I might enjoy it a lot. Then there's fanon. Each group builds their own interpretation. Some place a lot of emphasis on a single word or look.

I was thinking about my last post in here while I worked last night. I think the problem that someone like myself has with writing cannon is, I have had the characters of BOTP in my head for 20+ years. So in my mind things can become a little hazy from what the show actually does. There were times that I think I spent more time in "their" world then in RL. I can still remember going to a big amusement park and being the odd man out. While I still wanted to fit in, I was afraid of the rollercoasters. So I had the Eagle beside me through it all. At least I didn't feel so much like the third wheel. Ok enough crazy talk from me, I'll let the topic go now.

Originally posted by gatchgirl I was thinking about my last post in here while I worked last night. I think the problem that someone like myself has with writing cannon is, I have had the characters of BOTP in my head for 20+ years. So in my mind things can become a little hazy from what the show actually does. There were times that I think I spent more time in "their" world then in RL.

This is my problem with my writing as well. I have lived with my characters for so long, like you 20+ years, and I can see they have changed from the original characters. Some characteristics are the same but so many have changed either by becoming more or less exagerated. As for the characters invading my RL that happens all the time, when I am driving, either the Condor or the Eagle are whispering in my ear, when I go for energetic walks, the Eagle usually comes with me. For some reason the Swan joins me when I am cooking, (Probably because I cook about as well as her). And for those lazy summer days by the lake, when we used to take out my father's sailboat, I imagine the Owl.

I tend to mix both. I do, however, try so hard to keep my characters canon character - whether it's BotP or Gatch. Is probably my pet peeve - where the characters are OOC. I also try to keep their environment cannon - for example, Spectra/Galactor always attacks with a mecha, Zoltar/Katse always uses an escape pod to get away. Sometimes, I find 100% canon to be a little boring - after all, one has to go outside canon to write other than what is already written in the series!

I like to keep close the canon environment too... I is harder to do that if its past the time frame of the original series. In one story that is Gatch based I mixed it up a bit with Katse. Gel sadra, and Egobossler.. Only because I was going with the idea of the Eagle and Katse suddenly vanishing and the world changed and events happened in a different order. I like missions.. they bring action into a story. But I find stories that are too close to canon that they almost become just a re write of an EP a bit boring... One of the few stories that I have read that was very,very close to canon, but keep me interested and well executed was by Springie... "Storm Front."

I've never written a fanfic, but I'm an avid reader. Regardless of the subject--Gatch, Lord of the Rings, Resident Evil, etc.,--I have the most fun reading stories that retain the personalities of the original characters while shaking up the settings and circumstances. Kind of like "what would they do in this situation?" Some writers can be very creative with their stories, and that's great--as long as I have an anchor to hang onto in the characters. Let's face it, we love our faves for a reason. Who wants to read about a sappy, doe-eyed condor or rat-bastard eagle? Maybe some, but not me. I guess tenuously canon fits my favorite fanfics.

OOPS! Double post! Now it's time for a commercial break... Are you tired? Listless? Do you poop out at parties? It's time for VITAMEATAGATCHAMAN... Just one tablespoon from this little bottle will have you Flying High in no time! Now back to our regularly scheduled fic talk...

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne One of the few stories that I have read that was very,very close to canon, but keep me interested and well executed was by Springie... "Storm Front."

Awwww... Ebony! Thank you! You've made my day...I don't really think of myself as much of a writer...so it means a lot to me that my ficcie stood out to you! I usually hover in the "mostly canon" and "tenuously canon" range...mainly because I am afraid of making the characters not seem like themselves...and I like to try to bridge gaps in episodes, or write what I would like to have seen "behind the scenes"...and I know....it usually involves a certain Eagle and a certain Swan...

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne I was thinking about this... and i know sometimes cannon is needed, but is it really? After all it is an intricate weave to place a story inside of another plot- which is what we do when we write fanfiction. BUT how much is it needed, or should we let our own imaginations run loose more....

I think that a story inside of another story makes it more interesting. It can bring some more detail to the characters for example.

Originally posted by Fairlight I've never written a fanfic, but I'm an avid reader. Regardless of the subject--Gatch, Lord of the Rings, Resident Evil, etc.,--I have the most fun reading stories that retain the personalities of the original characters while shaking up the settings and circumstances. Kind of like "what would they do in this situation?" Some writers can be very creative with their stories, and that's great--as long as I have an anchor to hang onto in the characters. Let's face it, we love our faves for a reason. Who wants to read about a sappy, doe-eyed condor or rat-bastard eagle? Maybe some, but not me. I guess tenuously canon fits my favorite fanfics.

ITA Meg!... after some thought I have come more to that conclusion. I light what Fairlight said, the reader has to have an anchor. When I used to just read fanfic I looked for stories that had an element of creativity to them, but kept the personalities of the team. Eg. Sometimes the Condor would be much more aggressive. Then at other times when reading a ficcie he was almost tooo good. (Especially Jason, most people tend to write him without his sarcasm or his other complexes. Like the fact that he wanted to be in command... He becomes tooo much like Joe in some BOTP fics, Joe was more supportive of Ken, even if he was reckless at times and disagreed.) When I'm writing a ficcie I try to keep the reader part of me in mind. I don't know if I always succeed but thats up to the reader to decide... I've been going over my very first ficccies fixing up grammar. I notice I have improved heaps since I started out... But also the way I write the characters has changed as well.

Yes, well said Fairlight. Even if a writer makes up his/her own story, the personalities are very important for me. Another thing is the reference to the events/things we've seen in the film/episodes. It gives the plot and the characters more depth. Ebony, your fic "When lightening strikes" - which is jaw-dropping by the way - fx. you mention the Cressent Coral base that was destroyed. Ken "lecturing" Jun and Joe about bringing him to the new base even though they were suspicious of him being an impostor, etc.

I couldn't agree more, Meg. To me, reference to past well-known story elements improves a fic. What's even more fun is character reaction or thoughts about the element that were overlooked in the original show. I love it when an author does that for me. It gives an intimate look into the character. Sometimes doing that even lends a bit of closure to an event that was left unaddressed by the show. A perfect example is Springie's Puttin' on the Ritz. In the beginning, she takes us back to Joe's death and leads us along to how the team might have dealt--or not dealt--with it. The personalities are accurate even through the trauma of losing a member. I found all the reactions very believable. Kudos, Springie. (Love the *commercial*!)

Wow., thanks Fairlight! You guys are making me feel so good! I'm so glad "Ritz" worked for you...I had fun with it! Oh, and the "commercial" was a result of a very crazy, half asleep Swannie, who had an extra post to fill up... what a scary combination!

Originally posted by meg Yes, well said Fairlight. Even if a writer makes up his/her own story, the personalities are very important for me. Another thing is the reference to the events/things we've seen in the film/episodes. It gives the plot and the characters more depth. Ebony, your fic "When lightening strikes" - which is jaw-dropping by the way - fx. you mention the Cressent Coral base that was destroyed. Ken "lecturing" Jun and Joe about bringing him to the new base even though they were suspicious of him being an impostor, etc.

Meg...thanks for the compliment...

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne

Originally posted by meg Yes, well said Fairlight. Even if a writer makes up his/her own story, the personalities are very important for me. Another thing is the reference to the events/things we've seen in the film/episodes. It gives the plot and the characters more depth. Ebony, your fic "When lightening strikes" - which is jaw-dropping by the way - fx. you mention the Cressent Coral base that was destroyed. Ken "lecturing" Jun and Joe about bringing him to the new base even though they were suspicious of him being an impostor, etc.

Meg...thanks for the compliment...

In Poland I would say, "It's not a compliment, it's true". You've dane a great job

Just thought I'd put my two cents in. Hope you don't mind. As a fanfic writer, when I use the term "canon", it means that I have put the fic_within_the setting of a particular series. So whenever I write a canon fic, I pay meticulous attention towards episodes that have a direct connection with the story I'm writing. A lot of canon fans are very anal about meticulousness towards adhering to the series storyline. It is for this reason that I strongly prefer to read fics wherein the writer is allowed to let his or her imagination go free. Now, when it comes to characterization...let's put it this way. Every individual perceives a character in his or her own way. For example, to some people, they may find Joe too arrogant, brash and aggressive, and they would tend to focus on these personality traits more in their fics, instead of exploring the possibility that he may have another side to him. Personally, I would like to read more fics that would explore possible nuances in their character. Basically, what I'm trying to say is I don't want to see a writer having his/her imagination inhibited by what canon afficionadoes say. If all fics were to strictly adhere to canon plots and characterization, creativity, imagination and variety would be lost.

Originally posted by Rory Basically, what I'm trying to say is I don't want to see a writer having his/her imagination inhibited by what canon afficionadoes say. If all fics were to strictly adhere to canon plots and characterization, creativity, imagination and variety would be lost.

Very good point, Rory. It's like someone pointed out earlier in the thread, too canon can be boring. I agree. I really like it when an author gives me something that makes me go, "hmmm...," not, "huh!?!?"

Its interesting to see how some interprets a story... I find when I'm writing I have one picture in my mind of whats happening. But then I have read feedback and the interpretation is different. They see something, that I thought was minor stand out and make an impact, or something about a characters personality that they see as new- I didn't realize I put in there. And I wrote the story... I find that fascinating. It shows how different we can see a story when you turn loose your imagination.

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne Its interesting to see how some interprets a story... I find when I'm writing I have one picture in my mind of whats happening. But then I have read feedback and the interpretation is different. They see something, that I thought was minor stand out and make an impact, or something about a characters personality that they see as new- I didn't realize I put in there. And I wrote the story... I find that fascinating. It shows how different we can see a story when you turn loose your imagination.

I agree with you on this one. Individual interpretation makes for variety and creativity. Sadly, previous forums I've been in -- especially the Highlander ones -- were so damned rabid (for lack of a better term) about canon. I was too happy to leave that fandom.

Originally posted by Fairlight

Originally posted by Rory Basically, what I'm trying to say is I don't want to see a writer having his/her imagination inhibited by what canon afficionadoes say. If all fics were to strictly adhere to canon plots and characterization, creativity, imagination and variety would be lost.

Very good point, Rory. It's like someone pointed out earlier in the thread, too canon can be boring. I agree. I really like it when an author gives me something that makes me go, "hmmm...," not, "huh!?!?"

True. I personally like writers who explore the "what ifs" and not dwell too much on "what it should be."

Rory I love Highlander! But I have never been in the forums or read fanfic. I would have thought it would have been the most open area for creative writers considering the time frames and scope in the series and movies. I still love the original movie "Highlander" the most. But then I love Queen... I did a small ficcie from the Song "Gimme the Prize" For Egobossler. I tend to write him as a toned down version of the Kurgan with...

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne Rory I love Highlander! But I have never been in the forums or read fanfic. I would have thought it would have been the most open area for creative writers considering the time frames and scope in the series and movies. I still love the original movie "Highlander" the most. But then I love Queen...

Believe me, it's not! I was once a member of these Highlander slash forums and my stories practically got flamed. The only reason why people eventually started to like the fics is because one fanartist supported me all the way and made a lot of steamy fanarts for my Highlander fics.

Well we don't like flamers in Gatch fic forums. Even if the story isn't in that readers style there is no need for it. Everyone has to start from somewhere, and the more experience you get the better your stories become. I have to admit I'm not into slash at all, but I don't tell people what they should write just to fit in with my tastes in stories.(As long as the stories have warnings, then theres no problem.) So write away... Rory there are readers who will like your stories so don't let people in other fandoms turn you off writing.

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne Rory there are readers who will like your stories so don't let people in other fandoms turn you off writing.

Do you want me to give you the honest to goodness truth? I almost quit writing fiction totally because of certain comments people have made about my fics -- both fan and original. The last was when someone criticized me for my sentence construction in what was supposed to be a professional writer's forum. Problem is I AM a magazine writer and editor by profession, so that criticism really hurt a lot and for close to a year, I did not write any fics at all. Eventually, I got around to showing that story to an editor who is my senior and it turned out that my sentence construction was right after all, and she was wrong. Needless to say, after seeing all those slash Gatch arts on the Net kind of got me inspired enough to try writing again but more meticulous. I am rather proud of my first Gatch fic. I never thought I'd put so much attention -- both in the writing and editing -- to a fic.

Rory! am glad that you did not quit! I have had negative comments on my fics as well, and also (what for me is the WORST) absolute and utter silence. But I keep writing for ME. It doesn't hurt that I have a few 'fans' whom I know will read whatever I write, and give me honest feedback, so that helps a bit, but honestly, if *I* didn't enjoy the writing, then I wouldn't do it, KWIM? Sounds to me like you are posting your stories in the wrong places. JMHO.

Well from I see when I read a book, its the story that draws me in. If the reader only saw the grammar and sentence structure then it makes me wonder if they actually read the story itself. In professional writing I don't see comments on sentence structure in a book review. I do see from critiques things like if the plot worked, were the characters dimensional and well developed. Did the story draw them in... The rest can be fixed!!! And honestly sentence structure is the last thing I comment on, to me thats up to a beta reader or editor...

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne And honestly sentence structure is the last thing I comment on, to me thats up to a beta reader or editor...

You'd be surprised how anal some people can be. I read a lot of the comments/reviews at fanfic archives to find out if it's a story I'd be interested in. Bloody hell, those are the reasons I never got into writing fanfic. I was terrified of the comments I might receive when I posted that little Ryu's and Joe's journal entries on Gatchaman FanFic Archive. It's ultimately the reason I took them down. Not that I was flamed. Just the fear of it.

You posted fics????? REALLY? I don't think I've seen those, Fairlight! You should post again! I promise I'll comment, and no matter WHAT I think, I won't say anything bad. That's just NMS. But I'm really curious, now! (Just so you know, there are a number of people on that site who have feather shuriken up their collective a$$. It doesn't pay to do anything but ignore them. )

Originally posted by Fairlight

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne And honestly sentence structure is the last thing I comment on, to me thats up to a beta reader or editor...

You'd be surprised how anal some people can be. I read a lot of the comments/reviews at fanfic archives to find out if it's a story I'd be interested in. Bloody hell, those are the reasons I never got into writing fanfic. I was terrified of the comments I might receive when I posted that little Ryu's and Joe's journal entries on Gatchaman FanFic Archive. It's ultimately the reason I took them down. Not that I was flamed. Just the fear of it.

I remember those ... I think. Please post them here, I would love to read them again.

You probably do, CD. TJ, they were very short and nondescript. Forgettable in other words. I can't repost them (sorry). They were casualties when my computer died!

Could you rewrite them? I remember reading them and they were very good! I'm pretty sure I commented, too...didn't I?

Ohhh dear.... Do you remember the names of them? Cloud whispers *when I find Ryu/Tiny stories I try to save them, although I may have missed yours.*

Originally posted by Springie Could you rewrite them? I remember reading them and they were very good! I'm pretty sure I commented, too...didn't I?

Springie, you have never failed to comment on anything I've done. That alone built up my courage to do most of what I do now. You said they were very good and that I should write more. There were a couple of others who were very nice, but I can't remember who...

Originally posted by Fairlight You probably do, CD. TJ, they were very short and nondescript. Forgettable in other words. I can't repost them (sorry). They were casualties when my computer died!

Oh, no! Regardless, if inspiration strikes you again, you SHOULD post somewhere.

CD, they were called Ryu's Journal and Joe's Journal (imaginative, huh?) They consisted of short abbreviated entries on a semi-daily basis--the sort of things I think they might say or feel.

Oh, I hate that you took them down... they were really good, too...I *do* hope you'll write some more, Fairlight...you are a talented writer, too!! Don't let anyone drag you down...I agree with TJ...it stinks to have your work ignored...it happens to me too, sometimes...but the people who really matter *are* reading and are supportive...and you are among friends now...so get writing!

Awww... Thanks Springie. You're so sweet! Maybe I'll give it another go. Here I don't mind posting anything I've done. You guys really are the best!!

Originally posted by Fairlight Awww... Thanks Springie. You're so sweet! Maybe I'll give it another go. Here I don't mind posting anything I've done. You guys really are the best!!

I feel that way being here, as well Fairlight. I feel safe enough to talk about and post my stories. From here I have been able to move to other places to post. But it is here that I get the nicest and most comments. to everyone

Originally posted by clouddancer I feel that way being here, as well Fairlight. I feel safe enough to talk about and post my stories. From here I have been able to move to other places to post. But it is here that I get the nicest and most comments. to everyone

Have you posted fics to this site, CD? I didn't think you had. I'll have to look in the library for them.

Originally posted by Fairlight Awww... Thanks Springie. You're so sweet! Maybe I'll give it another go. Here I don't mind posting anything I've done. You guys really are the best!!

We feel the same way about you, Fairlight!

Originally posted by Fairlight

Originally posted by clouddancer I feel that way being here, as well Fairlight. I feel safe enough to talk about and post my stories. From here I have been able to move to other places to post. But it is here that I get the nicest and most comments. to everyone

Have you posted fics to this site, CD? I didn't think you had. I'll have to look in the library for them.

Cutting and pasting here can sometimes end up with strange characters. She posted to the Clubhouse and then linked to it from here. Of course, you could also just upload your fics directly to the fic library!

I remember those stories!!! They were funny and I think I posted you a review Fairlight!

Thanks, TJ! This is such a different place than others I've been to. And I found the ClubHouse I have a lot of reading to do. Ebony, I remember you left nice fb too.

Originally posted by Fairlight

Originally posted by clouddancer I feel that way being here, as well Fairlight. I feel safe enough to talk about and post my stories. From here I have been able to move to other places to post. But it is here that I get the nicest and most comments. to everyone

Have you posted fics to this site, CD? I didn't think you had. I'll have to look in the library for them.

No I have not posted my stories here, but as TJ says I have linked to them. I have been thinking about asking for a bookshelf from Cep, but with only 2 fics it is probably easier to link than to try and figure out the upload stuff. Maybe when/if I get around to finishing and posting my next fic.

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne I did a small ficcie from the Song "Gimme the Prize" For Egobossler. I tend to write him as a toned down version of the Kurgan with...

Oh, yes, that was good! I'm still waiting for more!

Originally posted by Fairlight Thanks, TJ! This is such a different place than others I've been to.

In a way, that makes me feel good, but in a way it's also very sad. KWIM?

Originally posted by clouddancer I have been thinking about asking for a bookshelf from Cep, but with only 2 fics it is probably easier to link than to try and figure out the upload stuff. Maybe when/if I get around to finishing and posting my next fic.

I'll be waiting for it. You know, this board really does have so much talent on it. And yes, I do know what you mean, TJ. With every other site there seems to be a clique that's impenetrable. Oh well.

Good grief! How did I get to exalted member so fast?! Too much Internet time...

Originally posted by Fairlight Good grief! How did I get to exalted member so fast?!

Because it's fun here?

Originally posted by Fairlight Good grief! How did I get to exalted member so fast?! Too much Internet time...

Nahhhh! It is all those beautiful animations and wallpapers you insit on posting for us.

Originally posted by Transmute Jun Rory! am glad that you did not quit! I have had negative comments on my fics as well, and also (what for me is the WORST) absolute and utter silence. But I keep writing for ME. It doesn't hurt that I have a few 'fans' whom I know will read whatever I write, and give me honest feedback, so that helps a bit, but honestly, if *I* didn't enjoy the writing, then I wouldn't do it, KWIM? Sounds to me like you are posting your stories in the wrong places. JMHO.

' Well, I couldn't say that I'm totally happy I didn't quit, but I decided to stick with it for the time being, especially since there's someone who seems so enthusiastic for me to write a story for their yaoi magazine. But yes, the silence is terrible. Luckily though, being in Y! Gallery, there's someone there who will comment -- good or bad, but mainly good. Sadly, you have to register there first. But it's really a good place both for yaoi fanfic writers and fan artists because they are supportive of each other.

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne Well from I see when I read a book, its the story that draws me in. If the reader only saw the grammar and sentence structure then it makes me wonder if they actually read the story itself. In professional writing I don't see comments on sentence structure in a book review. I do see from critiques things like if the plot worked, were the characters dimensional and well developed. Did the story draw them in... The rest can be fixed!!! And honestly sentence structure is the last thing I comment on, to me thats up to a beta reader or editor...

Unfortunately, there are critics out there, whom we have dubbed as "Grammar Nazis" who will attack fics for grammar, spelling, sentence structure, etc. MediaMiner, Fanfiction.net and AFF.net have them. I remember one person actually giving me a low rating of 1 for the Grammar in my Samurai 7 fic. But if you read her comments, God, her grammar is a hell of a lot worse than mine. Needless to say, I told her not to insult me and instead concentrate on fixing her own grammar, which is more f**ked up than mine. You know, I would happily read a story that is riddled with grammar errors but has a FANTASTIC plot, than a well-written one with a mediocre plot.

Originally posted by Fairlight

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne And honestly sentence structure is the last thing I comment on, to me thats up to a beta reader or editor...

You'd be surprised how anal some people can be. I read a lot of the comments/reviews at fanfic archives to find out if it's a story I'd be interested in. Bloody hell, those are the reasons I never got into writing fanfic. I was terrified of the comments I might receive when I posted that little Ryu's and Joe's journal entries on Gatchaman FanFic Archive. It's ultimately the reason I took them down. Not that I was flamed. Just the fear of it.

I agree with everyone. Repost them here.

Rory I was the same when I started to write ficcies.(Terrified to press the 'post' key.) It took me four days to get up the courage to post my first small ficcie...just 600 words long. I was only just learning to use 'word' and my grammar and sentence structure skills weren't very good. In fact I think they sucked... (They still need work, but they aren't as bad now.) The world of writing was so new to me and it still is! I'm still learning to write better and I hope I never stop learning. I have nothing against slash.( I just don't feel comfortable reading a lot of it.Just not my inclination, I have friends who are into though.) But I do see there are people who like it and it has its place here in the world too. And there are some great writers in that area, they shouldn't be restricted because of what I like. Rory post your ficcies!!!post, post away... Besides people who only look at your grammar through a review can come across as snobby...And I can tell straight away they were not reading the story very well. (If they offer help through a private email, thats OK, at least they have some idea of courtesy.) I don't mind if they say..."There was a plot hole or two", or maybe "it wasn't clear on that part of the story what the character was meant to be doing..." Even a proof reader can miss things...

Heh, I remember that nervy posting feeling. On the big list, I used to post under my own name until I decided I wanted to post some fanfic. At that point MeridianDay turned into the name I now use for almost everything I was so nervy, I tried to write the fic in american english rather than my own dialect, and I really would never have got around to posting it without using an account that couldn't be identified as the real me.

Meridian if you were taught English style than use it I say!!! They did invent the language after all! My child will learn to spell the Oxford English when she goes to school... I must have looked at the 'Enter' button like it was the shiny red button...I could have been firing a bird missile and not knowing what it might hit!!! I posted my first ficcie on the 5th May last year...

I've used English english in every fic after that first one - it was just first-time nerves. Also, there had been a bit of a flame-war beforehand involving other people's fics (the email list at the time was a mod-free zone and there were a lot of flame wars), which made me extra nervous.

I understand... at the time i was posting my first I had a lot of confidence issues... I had friends in my youth at school say I was stupid...(it hurt...) I wasn't smart like they were...(funny thing is I knew what they were saying behind my back... I figured it out....)Not good friends to have...so I learned in years to come. BUT!!!! I'm now following my own instincts...and my beliefs. Flame wars aren't good.... No one has the right to say that a fandom is exclusive to their ideas...and exclude everyone else... Fic writing is a hobby and it should be made something that a person does to show they love the show...its a great escape from the real world...and those characters inspired them to write...

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne I understand... at the time i was posting my first I had a lot of confidence issues... I had friends in my youth at school say I was stupid...(it hurt...) I wasn't smart like they were...(funny thing is I knew what they were saying behind my back... I figured it out....)Not good friends to have...so I learned in years to come. BUT!!!! I'm now following my own instincts...and my beliefs. Flame wars aren't good.... No one has the right to say that a fandom is exclusive to their ideas...and exclude everyone else... Fic writing is a hobby and it should be made something that a person does to show they love the show...its a great escape from the real world...and those characters inspired them to write...

Well said!

Fairlight...Thanks... I think I get to opinionated sometimes for my own good...

Well, if you want my opinion, here it goes. As for me, I see the "canon" term as a complex of characters' behavior archtypes, their traits and habits, the concept of world and its history, the relationship between the chars - and nothing more. You really shouldn't write fics based only on a canon unverse; it's good to throw the Team to a world or two where there is no Gallactor at all ^_^, stuff like that. The thing is in author's ability to recognize character's persona and model its outcome in certain situations, however far from the canon it will be. In the fics, you can do everything you haven't seen in the originals; but it's up to you to make it feel comfortable, to make the characters themselves, not puppets with familiar faces.

thats a good insight into cannon and its not something many people think about. Have you read many ficcies Dr. sinc???

I don't know if this is a dead thread (but to me it is new since, well, I'm new!), but after reading all of this I have a question and I think this might be a good place to post it (please please correct me if I am wrong!) If a writer creates an AU that references canon, or even an AU series, does that become "canon" unto itself? If so, does that mean that another writer could write in that AU? Or many other writers? Could it engender its own subset of canon and fics?-- or would that just be bad form all around? Does the AU always remain the original work of the writer and therefore not to be "borrowed" even though the other parts were borrowed from canon? (geesh . . . I hope this makes sense!)

Good question Go girl. Usually an AU is the writers alternation of the Cannon universe. Most do it just so that they can expand on ideas they have. Cannon is always Cannon, that includes character personalities. Generally most Fanfic AU's are closed to other writers, unless another writer is given permission to use the fanfic universe.(I suppose you can look at as canon for that universe only, I never really thought about it before you mentioned it.) BOTP often had AU's since there is so much scope to go into outer space with story lines..

I love any stories I can read. mine are mostly at best tenuously canon, I struggle sometimes at getting the right depth to them.

FB your stories are wonderful! And they have great depth to them. Darkness is coming along very well.

Originally posted by gogirl212 I don't know if this is a dead thread (but to me it is new since, well, I'm new!), but after reading all of this I have a question and I think this might be a good place to post it (please please correct me if I am wrong!) If a writer creates an AU that references canon, or even an AU series, does that become "canon" unto itself? If so, does that mean that another writer could write in that AU? Or many other writers? Could it engender its own subset of canon and fics?-- or would that just be bad form all around? Does the AU always remain the original work of the writer and therefore not to be "borrowed" even though the other parts were borrowed from canon? (geesh . . . I hope this makes sense!)

I doubt any of us have contacted Tatsunoko and asked it it's okay to write fics in the Gatchaman universe, but a fic writer's own AU would be a much more personal thing, so I wouldn't write in someone else's AU without asking first and getting the okay. I've seen it happen -at the Gatch Archives, Jane Lebak let another writer set a story in her BOTP universe and use one of her OCs. Now, assuming one has received permission to write in someone else's AU, would one then have to stay "canon" to that person's AU? It gets complicated! I used to read a lot of Harry Potter fanfiction, while the books were still being published, and it was sort of amusing that a lot of writers were trying to stay quite true to canon, but every time a new book came out, it often made them go AU -ie. Sirius Black is your main character, and now he's dead in canon.

ITA, FB, your fics are wonderful, Canon or not!!!! Generally it's considered poor ettiquette to use someone else's AU without their permission, but given that all fanfic is in a grey legal area to begin with, it CAN be done.

FB - I've recently read some of your fics and I think you did something marvelous by taking this familiar character and giving her a completely new existence to explore. It was very inspiring, because up until then it had never dawned on me to even consider that. I think those types of things are very exciting in they expand your ideas for the what the "repertoire" for characters might be. (If it's not obvious - I really enjoyed your work very much and I'm looking forward to more installments!)

She writes a really good Swan story. One that you can really get into. Keep em coming FB.

I'm ambivalent about whether the story is canon or not. If its a good story, it doesn't matter to me. I guess all of my fics are noncanon because I hate Zark and will never include him in a fic. I have liked fics that have him, I just can't bring myself to do it.

Originally posted by Becky Rock I have liked fics that have him, I just can't bring myself to do it.

I hear you! I normally give Zark a very minor role, but then bring him in for comic relief. I once tried to write a fic from his POV in a sympathetic manner... get inside his head, so to speak. And it ended up moving in a very different manner....

Where is the Zark fic you wrote, TJ? I just went back and read through the thread. I think of fanfiction as a place to explore AUs and alternate explanations of things. Or to save a series from itself (BotP comes to mind). In my case, I reframed Gatchaman as if someone in Tatsunoko (or, these days, Imagi) went insane and hired me. Berg Katse was an interesting character even before we learned of the mutation. After I produced a few vignettes and short bits, I produced 'Kidnap', which sent my reimagining of Katse into a new direction. I see Nambu and Katse as being opposite numbers, with the doctor being much healthier in his relationships and emotional connections than Katse. ISO versus Galactor. That sort of thing. Oh, yes, some people will nitpick, but if they don't like what I write, they don't have to read it. I like reading the other interpretations of the characters, and how the inconsistencies and peculiarities of the series are explained, retconned, or given the 'how I would do this' treatment.

FWIW, I think your imagining of the universe is fascinating, UW! And I agree, it's fun to see different people's takes on the setup of the series. My Zark fic is here: http://gatchfanfic.com/viewstory.php?sid=50

Originally posted by Becky Rock I'm ambivalent about whether the story is canon or not. If its a good story, it doesn't matter to me. I guess all of my fics are noncanon because I hate Zark and will never include him in a fic. I have liked fics that have him, I just can't bring myself to do it.

Becky I feel the same thats why I done so few BOTP! I finally found a way to include him in my AU...but *evil* laugh...make him two faced...and it works well for the main plot line.

UW- I know what you mean. For me its all interpretation because people will see different things in a character than someone else and focus more in one part of their personality at times. (I do.) I'm not a trained writer, so fanfiction is good for people like me to learn without the pressure of exams to go with it. I've learned heaps though for a lot of people here who genuinely want to give helpful feedback not just nit pick for the sake of it.

I always enjoy reading AU fics, for their creativity and for how they can expand with a wealth of detail, or improve, aspects of the original beyond the confines of a weekly 30 minute show aimed at children. I guess every fic, in a sense, is an AU of sorts -otherwise all we'd have is exact reproductions of original episodes- but some go further than others. Myself, I've invented things that never happened in canon, but I've never really changed canon -I'm not sure I have enough imagination for that!

I like to stick with canon because I always tend to respect the origin of things and their roots which remind me the essence of the love that I nurture towards anything. This notwithstanding, I also like creativity and the way stories and characters can evolve just by a bit of imagination and, hence, here an author's talent can be really appreciated. I so enjoy reading fanfics of many of you and I so wish I can have the same ability of capturing a reader's attention with my writing if some day I will be able to finish one myself (only God knows when!).

Originally posted by gatchamarie I so wish I can have the same ability of capturing a reader's attention with my writing if some day I will be able to finish one myself (only God knows when!).

You can do it, Marie! Just keep working on the story that excites you most, and it will happen.

Originally posted by gatchamarie I so wish I can have the same ability of capturing a reader's attention with my writing.

Funny, that is the way I feel as well when I am posting stories from my AU. (Although now I do know that people are interested in them.) Don't worry Gatchamarie what ever you post will be sure to capture my interest.

Gatchamarie how will we know if you don't post it??? From what I've seen of your poetry you have a wonderful way of capturing peoples imagination.

I agree. You have an excellent way with words, Gatchamarie, and a deep appreciation of the series and its characters. Even if you write a fic slowly, bit by bit as time allows, I don't doubt at all that it will capture my attention!

Oh! A great thanks to all of you girls ... you literally sent chills down my spine as I read your encouragements (I can get so emotional at times!)! Need to explain myself here! I never attempted to write long stories in English although the desire was always there! I only wrote ones in the Italian language and in mine to take part into competitions during my past years and I admit feeling a bit uneasy to the idea of sharing one with so many good authors like yourself feeling that my writing in English is not so good due to spelling mistakes or to wrong sentence structure! Moreover, it's so much time that I haven't had a bit of a chance to catch up with some good reading! It's only thanks to you that I do some reading which I enjoy being based on a subject that I like and mainly made up of shorter stories than whole books! But, you know, I might try to finish a part of my first Gatch fic which I began writing a couple of months ago, my desire of writing Gatch fueled by many of your awesome stories which I read with great joy! You might not be surprised as to what my first Gatch fic would be about ... as I watched Gatch I, Gatch II and Gatch F after each other in my childhood and viewed Gatch F for a couple of times since then, I always wished for a sequel - a realistic one which deals with what happened after the SNT fought their final battle with Sosai Z. I don't know exactly how many outcomes I have pictured in my mind, especially when I was younger! I confess that sometimes I feel that my writing is becoming perhaps a bit boring or out of context as I go along but I'll try to find the courage and share this fic of mine with you just for the pleasure of writing Gatch and to share my love for the same Gatch with people who understand such devotion (even if, as my DH says, it's childish! ... and I respond to this saying, "It just feels so good to extract the child in oneself at times!") So please try and bear with me if I happen to do so and sorry for my long message but I wished to show you my appreciation for your comments!

Originally posted by clouddancer (Although now I do know that people are interested in them.)

Be sure of that!

Go for it, Marie!

Amyltre who posts here didn't have very good english but she still posted her ficcies here, and its improved heaps since she started doing it. Her stories are funny to read and adds a different outlook since she writes a lot in Fighter. So you're not alone.. Besides you should have seen how bad my writing was at the beginning. (I'm no expert now, but its improved a lot.) For me writing was extremely intimidating especially since there are so many with fantastic writing skills it was hard to press the 'post' button. I have to admit I still get nerves at times posting a story or chapter.

Take all the time you need Gatchamarie. I can overlook spelling mistakes or sentence structure when I know a person is writing with another language as their first language. In fact I can overlook those if my attention is captured in the excitement of events. When I read that you have been writing in your native language I thought, "I would love it if you translated of one of those stories for us. You don't have to worry about the spelling or sentence structure." But I will wait patiently until you feel you are ready to post something you are comfortable with. Like Ebony says, I still feel intimidated or uncomfortable posting anything new, even knowing all the support I get from people who love what I write. I don't see myself as having "great" writing skills, but I have enjoyed feeling free enough to write again.

Marie, your English is wonderful (far better than my Italian... or even my French!) and I am sure your stories would be just fine in terms of language. And as for a topic, I think the potential aftermath of Gatchaman Fighter is a terrific topic. As for being childish... sure, it's childish, but it's fun! And ask your husband if he'd rather have you writing stories for a hobby, ro going shopping. I know what my husband would say!

Thanks again to all your support! All of you gave me loads of courage!

Originally posted by Transmute Jun And ask your husband if he'd rather have you writing stories for a hobby, ro going shopping. I know what my husband would say!

That's a good point, TJ, and a nice argument to tackle with my DH! I think he will have a heart-attack if my second option for a hobby were the second one!

Originally posted by clouddancer In fact I can overlook those if my attention is captured in the excitement of events.

That's another thing I worry about! I sometimes think that my story could reveal itself as boring for others or that I'm taking too long to arrive at the exciting parts of it when trying to explain bit by bit what happened in the meantime and what were the events which lead to such an outcome!

When I read that you have been writing in your native language I thought, "I would love it if you translated of one of those stories for us. You don't have to worry about the spelling or sentence structure."

Thanks, CD! Many of them are short stories which I wrote for the Central Bank of Malta's magazine which was distributed amongst us employees by our social club. I also liked to submit satirical poetry which was work related and thus had lots of terms and expressions which us employees only knew! As to the Italian language I wrote short stories way back to when I was a higher student, mostly descriptive as this language for me sounds so romantic! I once even was the fourth runner up when submitting a short novel in Italian as part of a competition which takes place annually by a literature society at Pistoia, Italy! I had to go there with my mum for the ceremony and the distribution of prizes and that's one memory that I'll never forget!

Marie, most of your concerns are ones that all writers face, and there's nothing there that diligence on your part and a good beta reader can't cure. Just after you've written your story, be sure to tell your beta your concerns and perceived areas of weakness. If you are submitting your story in chapters, you might want to forewarn the beta as to what is coming next (the beta should not be reading for pleasure at this point, but to help you improve the story -- not to say the beta shouldn't enjoy it, either though).

When I beta for people, I find I tend to read a story twice. The first time for pleasure and then a second time to look for any spelling errors or grammatical errors.

Amethyst, thanks for your advice. I think your example is just the right one that I have to undergo for two reasons:- 1) being so tight with time I prefer to at least submit a few chapters instead of taking a lot of time to complete a whole story; 2) being my first experience and not sure if I'm going in the right way, I prefer to hear some feedback on what I have already written in order not to continue messing out things! CD, it's a good thing to read a story twice when you're a beta, just as when you've watched a film twice ... the second time one tends to get a better grip of the story. Moreover, any gaps or uncertainties or even mistakes could be cleared out, these perhaps being ignored in the first place!