Katsesama? Eva? Amy?? I know Katsesama said she was a psychologist, and something Amy wrote made me think she was studying psychology. At least you appear to have a firmer grasp of the subject then my C in first year psych class, Amy. Anyone else who can make a comment feel free as well. Can a person have two completely opposite sides to their personalities (a kind of split personality), and not have the two personalities affect their performance? And then, would they be able to merge or join the two halves to create a better personality? If TJ were here she would say "it is your Universe you are writing in so anything is possible," but unfortunately my sounding board is enjoying herself in the sun in Australia, so she cannot say that. ******** Now if you want to read further you can. The rest is me explaining some more of my Universe and why I asked the question. I am discovering Mark has two sides to him. (He may have always had them, but now that I am writing about him as a child his other side showing up.) Right now I'm referring to the two sides as Little Boy Mark and Eagle Leader Mark. Little Boy Mark is, timid, shy, nervous, and unsure of himself. He is scared of loving people because so many people have left him, or failed him. Eagle Leader Mark is bold, fearless, confident, decisive .... able to leap tall buildings ... sorry wrong character .... but you get the picture, all the qualities that make a competent leader. In my universe Mark is able to separate the two personalities. And his team can see the difference between the two characters. Although others can not spot the little signs of change as easily, or refuse to acknowledge the differences: such as Cronus and Anderson. But I am digressing. At this time, I am focusing on writing the building of the team, where Mark is 8 years old, and I am seeing the Little Boy qualities in Mark. A few years later in my Universe and during the war that I saw/watched on TV, Mark is Eagle Leader. For a while after this, the war has not ended in my Universe although it has changed, Mark continues with the Eagle Leader personality and then with help from Jason has a break through, or a break down first, and is able to 'join' the two personalities. Jason's and Mark's bond as brothers teaches Mark he can love others, without getting hurt himself and without hurting/losing them. When he realizes this, he then allows himself to love Princess and later become the great father he becomes. Mark continues to have the qualities of leadership but also now is also able to show love, compassion, humour and have fun. Another reason I am asking is because I have been seeing two sides to Jason as well. Jason the Condor has the fiery, aggressive, impatient personality we all know. Jason the 'Boy?' (I haven't named this personality yet) has a self-destructive side to him. He will go out and try dangerous stunts and participates in activities that risk his life. He has no fear of death. *Cloud suddenly wonders is this a Joe characteristic?* This time the close bond between Mark and Jason allows Mark to temper this side of Jason. Mark as a leader, relies on Jason's aggression but he knows how far to let Jason run with this aggression before he has to stand between him and the stunt or physically give him a good 'slap' for risking his life. And now I think I am seeing this personality split occur in Keyop as well. When he returns to the team after his 'forced' removal. I am starting to focus on Keyop's personality for the first time and am unsure what I am finding as I delve into him. It could be something else, I am playing with. Either that, or I like writing about tortured souls. Now, I think I will sit back and see what everyone has to say.

OK I'm not a trained phycologist. But it is possible for someone to go against their personality from what I have read about personalities. You can be the type of person who likes to sit back, observe, but doesn't want to make decisions. But if you are put in a leadership position then you change that to become a person to who makes on the spot decisions, even though you really hate it deep down and hesitate at critical moments because of this trait. This has happened to royalty over the centuries and countries suffered at times from leaders who were not really suited to that position.(They were only there because they were born into it.) What I'm thinking is that Mark is analytical in his nature, he has the ability to lead, but at first he hesitates because he needs to exam the situation more. This why he is overlooked at first for Leadership. Jason is a leader, but he jumps in too quick without assessing the situation enough and his temper over rides his common sense, and then bad mistakes happen. This is how they eventually balance each other in the Leadership role. I hope this makes sense what I'm trying to say here. It is your universe, so take from this anything that might help you develop him into what fits with your universe.

CD, the to answer your question, I did study psychology two years ago, and since my mom has had her exams in Psychology & Sociology I bothered to read some of her study books. Now the personalities you have described in Mark would fit only the Mark character you have created in your AU. Because the Mark from the show (which is based on Ken from the original Gatchaman) would have no personality split. He had a rough childhood, during which he had lost his parents and he had been taught during his training to not emotionally attach of anybody (especially of his team mates). Which is logical, since he could lose the said person anytime. Also he has been taught that he as the team's leader must be strong, reliabe, and a constant support for his mates. So the child personality comes from the trauma of having lost the ones he loved. No wonder he was shy and introvert. The training he undergo to become the Eagle made him to build up an emotionall shell and so he become apparently the distant, but very effective leader of G-force. But under his icy demeanor he may have very strong and intense feelings: anger,love, even the frustration for not be able or allowed to express them. So his personality is quite balanced, and he has no sides. The difference between his child and grown-up attitude is a cause-effect process. Of course, later in life, after Gallactor/Spectra is defeated and he learns he can allow himself to have feelings for someone (I take it's about Princess) without the fear he will lose her, Mark will lower his emotionally shields and act more naturally. The fact his feeling are reciprocated will help a lot. It's great you're documenting yourself before writing the fanfic. My advice: Better describe Mark's emotional withdrawl progress, as he came to be from a shy, timid boy to the bold, fearless, confident leader. Giving your character 2 different personalities would be quite difficult. I don't think you'll go to the point where they will battle for the control of the body they share, but since the child one is more prone to failure under pressure and Mark might get more angry with himself.

What a good question! Yes, I'm a psychologist. Everybody else has done such a good job of answering, though, I have to start by saying "Like they said!" I'll a couple more cents FWIW This depends on whether you're looking for a true multiple personality (which it doesn't sound like you are) or just some contradictory traits. Writing characters as multiples feels cliched to me because writers use it the wrong way. (Oh, look, it's a crazy MULTIPLE! *sigh*) If you want to read more about what it's like to be multiple (because you think it might help you understand extreme "splits" better), my best friend is a multiple, and she has done some writing for my website. http://archetypewriting.com/articles/DID_coll.htm Someone who's multiple is one person with a lot of pieces; what makes them different from a "singleton" is that there are psychological walls between their different parts; singletons have the different parts but they're all connected; they don't have separate names and memories. (Although they MAY have parts of themselves they think of as "the wild part" or "the good part" or "the writerly part" or whatever.) Trauma is what causes the walls in multiples, and it's not (NOT!) the same thing as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. Lisa's piece is a magnificent explanation. I think it's my favorite article on the site, but I'm biased. (If I told her I was writing this, she [they] would probably tell me to make sure you all know they are JOE/JASON fans. *grin*) If you have specific questions about multiples, I can probably answer those. As for someone who just has contradictory traits...I've always loved Walt Whitman's quote, "Do I contradict myself? Very well then, I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes." Everyone has contradictory traits. For example, I prefer to spend most of my time alone, but I love getting up in front of groups of people and talking. The bigger the crowd the better! Just leave me alone the rest of the time. As long as the same trait isn't contradicting itself (so-and-so can't fall in love, but falls easily in love with someone new; so-and-so is afraid of his own shadow, but is a masked crusader at night [unless he's faking the fear]), it works. I love, for example, in Batman Begins, the way he's terrified of bats, so he uses that as his symbol, because bats represent fear to him. By adopting the bat as his symbol, he's doing two things: empowering himself with an image he can use to frighten his enemies, and confronting his own fears. I think you have a good grasp of the characters' "splits," and everything sounds very feasible, both from a psychological standpoint and a writerly standpoint. I think you can feel good about where you're going! --------------------------------------------------------- SELF-AGGRANDIZEMENT ALERT I'm going to self-aggrandize here for a second, so you can skip this if you like -- I'm trying to build up the Q&A section of my archetypewriting site, because I'd like to sell the idea of writing a book of writer questions about psychology to a publishing company. (DP Lyle has written a book just like that for crime writers -- it's a medical forensics Q&A book, definitely worth having if you write about...erm...well, killing people.) So if you know other writers who might like to use the Q&A for original OR fanfic, please spread the word. The section of the site for the Q&A, with the most recent question, is here: http://archetypewriting.com/qa/qa.htm This is sort of my life right now, working on this kind of thing, so thanks for humoring me here.

WOW Amy and Katsesama, I know it was Cloudy who asked but the answers you guys gave are very interesting...what a good different prospective on personalities. This is the sort of thing that is always evolving don't you think. We keep learning about the way people tick until the day we die... This information is so useful for character building... I know people who look after children in foster care, and they have said that the kids from as young as a few months old know they have to survive somehow...And it sets something in there minds that takes years to reverse if the suffer from bad neglect by their parents. One child was neglected to the point of being a 1 yr old that couldn't even rollover on her stomach. It was found that child would hold food in her mouth because she was fed hardly at all. She learned to hold her formula bottles because the birth mother just put them in the cot but didn't really try to help her feed. It's a wonder she survived the neglect. I took until she was 3 yrs old to realize she didn't need to do that anymore and she wasn't going to starve. Before we adopted our beautiful daughter we attended seminars that the Dept. put on to help prepare you for a placement locally. They had child physiologist come in and tell you about dealing with children's emotions on adoption and fostering, they talked about the way kids hide feelings and it becomes a habit in life if you don't address it while they are young. It's not until they get around older kids that it becomes something important in their lives...And usually teenage years like they show in Gatch/BOTP,(Nambu could have dealt a bit better with Ken about his birth father, Ken had unrealistic expectations there, same with Anderson and Mark.) I see it in Gatchaman a lot and it makes me think of the seminars we attended. Opppsss I got carried away again and ran off the topic...

Katsesama, Amy, thank you for the *light* reading. I learn a great deal from you people. :: Puts down the bottle of port he took from Ego's table. He walks up to Ego, still bound to the chair in cuffs, just as Amy had left him. Toneman picks up the poker used to stir the ashes in the fire place, and brings a full golf swing across the shins of Count Egobossler. Ego lets out a drum shattering scream that fills the halls of the castle. Toneman laughs, and walks away, Gunning for Red Impulse Next......::

http://www.gatchfanfic.com/viewstory.php?sid=558 I thought this story addressed what Katsesama was talking about if you want to read it. I found it interesting in how the author presented it... Interruptions by Jane Lebak

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne http://www.gatchfanfic.com/viewstory.php?sid=558 I thought this story addressed what Katsesama was talking about if you want to read it. I found it interesting in how the author presented it... Interruptions by Jane Lebak

What a wonderful example. She describes several different types of dissociation extremely well. Dissociation happens on a continuum. There's [list] Normal stuff -- zoning out while you're driving, losing time while you're drawing/writing, getting totally immersed in a TV show Derealization - feeling like things are real, time slowing down, like in a car accident Dissociative amnesia - forgetting things due to trauma or unbearability of some kind - also called "repressed memories" Dissociative fugue - walking out of your life and taking on a new identity for a brief period of time. This is what happened to Anne Heche after she and Ellen split, even though she claimed it was multiple personality. Same thing happened to Margot Kidder. Nurse Betty is a passable example movie-wise. Dissociative Identity Disorder - multiple personalities, in which the individual, due to trauma beyond what a normal person could survive, is endured. Each piece of the personality "holds" a piece of the trauma. Often people with DID have been programmed by someone in an authority position; it's unbelievable the crap that goes on in cults and things. [/list] I love the reference to programming in the story. what she's talking about with Jason disconnecting sounds like a combination of intellectualization (a defense mechanism) and a form of dissociation that would fall between normal and derealization, closer to derealization.

Thank you Amy and Katsesama for your help. This is a lot more than the answer I was expecting. I did not expect it to cover so much information. It has given me a lot more to think about. Katse, love the q and A section on your site. I may have to post my next question there. (If I come up with another question like this again.)

Originally posted by Toneman Katsesama, Amy, thank you for the *light* reading. I learn a great deal from you people. :: Puts down the bottle of port he took from Ego's table. He walks up to Ego, still bound to the chair in cuffs, just as Amy had left him. Toneman picks up the poker used to stir the ashes in the fire place, and brings a full golf swing across the shins of Count Egobossler. Ego lets out a drum shattering scream that fills the halls of the castle. Toneman laughs, and walks away, Gunning for Red Impulse Next......::

What was that for, dummy? Hit Ego again and you'll be in deep shit. And BTW, that wasn't port! It was Ego's special wine flavoured laxative!

Originally posted by amyltrer

Originally posted by Toneman Katsesama, Amy, thank you for the *light* reading. I learn a great deal from you people. :: Puts down the bottle of port he took from Ego's table. He walks up to Ego, still bound to the chair in cuffs, just as Amy had left him. Toneman picks up the poker used to stir the ashes in the fire place, and brings a full golf swing across the shins of Count Egobossler. Ego lets out a drum shattering scream that fills the halls of the castle. Toneman laughs, and walks away, Gunning for Red Impulse Next......::

What was that for, dummy? Hit Ego again and you'll be in deep shit. And BTW, that wasn't port! It was Ego's special wine flavoured laxative!

Then isn't it a good thing Tone never said he drank it?

Very interesting thread! And gives great insight that any of us could probably use in our fics. I personally love deliving into the characters psychology and emotional beings. With the suffering and upbringing each one has had, each team member makes for a great psychological study. On the broader (and non-Gatch) spectrum, I'm really interested in abnormal psych (ok, I know it's not called Abnormal Psych anymore, but when I was in college, it was!). I was almost a psych major myself, and still have great interest in the subject. It just amazes me how powerful the psyche is and how you don't realize the far-reachng effects it can have. Katse, read the DID article you mentioned was on your website. I was so taken by it - the insight was amazing and captivating. Your friend gave such a different but very informative approach. I give her credit for having the courage to write so candidly about her experiences and lifestyle. Thank you for sharing it with us!

Originally posted by clouddancer

Originally posted by amyltrer

Originally posted by Toneman Katsesama, Amy, thank you for the *light* reading. I learn a great deal from you people. :: Puts down the bottle of port he took from Ego's table. He walks up to Ego, still bound to the chair in cuffs, just as Amy had left him. Toneman picks up the poker used to stir the ashes in the fire place, and brings a full golf swing across the shins of Count Egobossler. Ego lets out a drum shattering scream that fills the halls of the castle. CD, that's the male psycology! If one get his hands on a alcohol bottle, he'll take a gulp grom it! Especially if the bottle belongs to his enemy he want to piss off! Toneman laughs, and walks away, Gunning for Red Impulse Next......::

What was that for, dummy? Hit Ego again and you'll be in deep shit. And BTW, that wasn't port! It was Ego's special wine flavoured laxative!

Then isn't it a good thing Tone never said he drank it?

Originally posted by clouddancer Then isn't it a good thing Tone never said he drank it?

CD, that's the male psycology! If one get his hands on a alcohol bottle, he'll take a gulp grom it! Especially if the bottle belongs to his enemy he want to piss off!

But here's the twist..... I don't drink. Really, I don't. Maybe that's why I can't keep a steady girlfriend.... No I didn't drink it. I'd pour it out to piss him off. Oh and Amy, If you think the Devilstars can take me down, you better tell them to bring a sack lunch, cause it'll take all day (and hopefully most of the night....lol) to whoop my ass if they want some of me. I don't need a birdstyle. I can do that sh*t by myself..

You guys don't know how interresting and invaluable this thread has been for me! As someone living with a loved one who has schizophrenia/bi-polar disorder, (MIL is insistent that she is bi-polar and NOT schizophrenic!), the stigma about mental illness is very real and not only affects the individual but the entire family suffers too. I find this thread very liberating...just being able to talk about it and share ideas and understanding/learning how to deal with problems is such a major step to take. I have a few questions if you folks would indulge me (and anyone else that may be too scared to ask). a) What is the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath? b) What is the difference between schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and obsessive/compulsive disorder? I'll use my MIL as an example: WARNING: SOME FOLKS MAY WANT TO SKIP THIS PART IF THEY'RE EASILY DEPRESSED OR HAVE KIDS AROUND... MIL's mom's side of the family- many accusations of sexual child abuse at the hands of an older male relative by many female members. These have never been proved true or false. During some of MIL's "episodes" she has acused many adult males whether related or not to be abusing or wanting to abuse her grandchildren or any neighbours children. She has called police several times to the point when Children's Aid has shown up at her own daughter's door! Her mother had this "man-bashing" mentality, the same with her sister. The later ended up dying of alcohol-related problems after accusing her husband of molesting their daughter (again no proof), who subesquently committed suicide by hanging himself in the garage. There have been many suicides and drug/alcohol abuse on this side of the family. The men have either hung themselves or have put a gun to their heads. The women, though fewer in number of suicides, have preferred to OD. Either way they seem to withdraw from friends & family. MIL has had hallucinations. She sees and hears things that aren't happening, from the nextdoor neighbour breaking into the house, getting into verbal and physical battles with DH in which, DH's blood and/or brains usually get scattered everywhere; to local children suddenly appearing in her room and whispering that they need *her* help. In the past she has failed to sleep, eat, or even take a bath, nevermind remembering to take the proper amount of medications, or the right medications on time. She would forget that she'd already done something or would repeatedly do things which we thought might be Obessive/Compulsive. Going outside of the house can be traumatic as we found out trying to get one Xmas present at Crappy Tire. She got disoriented and claustrophobic in the crowded store while waiting in the lineup from hell, and ended up wandering away on us. After a panicked search we found her on the other side of the store shaking. The only reason we had gone there was because she insisted on going to put this gift for FIL on her Crappy Tire credit card, nobody else could do it. When we had got home, explained to FIL what happened, FIL says we don't have that card. Turns out she had an old Mastercard that expired 5 years ago!! As for getting help for someone who is mentally ill, that can be near impossible. It's bad enough with waiting in an Emergency room for the usual medical things, but picture trying to get someone admitted when they think that they don't have a problem! It is clear to everyone that there is something wrong with her but it is the law that they personally have to seek the help. This law is to protect people from being wrongly institutionalized and their property being seized by unscrupulous types. Again as someone else has posted if they show any signs of being threatening they will be removed off the premises by security/or police. That means they won't get the help they need, and possibly a criminal record!! One episode we had a few years ago in Febuary. MIL had called the police on FIL, again accusing child molestation and physical abuse of everyone in the family herself included. BTW MIL also has Oesteoporosis and at this time she has just healed after severly breaking her ankle from a slip on ice. For someone under 5' in height, in this state, she amazingly strong, and even trying to restrain her could snap bones. Police show up, we explain to them the situation. They see that she is clearly mentally ill. They explain to us that they cannot do anything unless she "is posing harm to someone or herself", if she is posing harm to someone (ie as she was hitting FIL) she would be taken to jail. He would have to charge her with domestic abuse and she would have a record. FIL breaks down in tears. I point out to one of the officers that "she is posing a risk to herself" having osteoporosis, and the fact that she is outside in the ice and snow with bare feet and only her nighty on!! He trys to coax her into the back seat of his car, to get her side of the story and more importantly to get her warm. For some reason she gets paranoid and bolts at the last second back into the house. Cops can't do anything...if she calls 911 again she will be charged with mischief. Cops leave. MIL gets verbally abusive with entire family, saying "She doesn't need to go to the hospital, they're the ones that are crazy!"....except for me... DH, and siblings cannot take anymore and leave, I stay. I cannot leave FIL, it breaks my heart to see him crying. I see my chance...I say to MIL, "You're right MIL...FIL needs to go to the hospital...He's crazy!" FIL looks at me like.."WTF???" I give him a Condor look...and mouth "play along"... I hated having to lie and connive like that but it was the only way I could get her to go to the hospital willingly, by her thinking she was going to get FIL admitted. Five hours later, after getting her to admit that she wanted to see a doctor (though not for herself in her mind at the time), she eventually calmed down and admitted that she was having problems and was admitted to the psychiatric ward. As you can imagine this is extremely disruptive to normal family life and it's no wonder that many people with mental illness end up alone, drug-addicted, and homeless. Having dealt with it I have a new perspective of the bums with their hands out, begging for change, in downtown Hamilton. I still won't give them money, but I will buy them something to eat or drink or give them smokes if I see them picking up old butts from the ground. Too many younger folks asking for "change for the bus", this change will go to their crackdealer.

Originally posted by Toneman Oh and Amy, If you think the Devilstars can take me down, you better tell them to bring a sack lunch, cause it'll take all day (and hopefully most of the night....lol) to whoop my ass if they want some of me. I don't need a birdstyle. I can do that sh*t by myself..

Oh, cheese pie then?

Originally posted by Hinotori I personally love deliving into the characters psychology and emotional beings. With the suffering and upbringing each one has had, each team member makes for a great psychological study.

Agreed!

On the broader (and non-Gatch) spectrum, I'm really interested in abnormal psych (ok, I know it's not called Abnormal Psych anymore, but when I was in college, it was!)

Actually, it still is. I start teaching my abnormal section again on Tuesday!

I was almost a psych major myself, and still have great interest in the subject.

Hee hee. I was an English/writing major.

Katse, read the DID article you mentioned was on your website. I was so taken by it - the insight was amazing and captivating.

Thanks, yes, I love that article. She's getting her psych degree and plans to become a psychologist, so she's got the knowledge from all directions. She's working on some articles about other things (she doesn't have that I'm excited about.

Originally posted by kimiko You guys don't know how interresting and invaluable this thread has been for me! As someone living with a loved one who has schizophrenia/bi-polar disorder, (MIL is insistent that she is bi-polar and NOT schizophrenic!), the stigma about mental illness is very real and not only affects the individual but the entire family suffers too. I find this thread very liberating...just being able to talk about it and share ideas and understanding/learning how to deal with problems is such a major step to take. I have a few questions if you folks would indulge me (and anyone else that may be too scared to ask).

Hi Kimiko! I have to preface this with a disclaimer, which is that I can't diagnose anyone outside a professional context, because it violates the ethical code of my professional organization. I don't think you're asking for that, just letting you know that's why I'm not able to say "sounds like she has _____." I'm glad you find learning more liberating -- knowledge is power! I'm also glad you have the confidence to ask for yourself and anyone else who's afraid to. a) What is the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath? Nothing. They're both colloquial terms for people with ANTISOCIAL PERSONALITY DISORDER, a condition in which the individual has no conscience.

I'm quoting myself from http://www.archetypewriting.com/real/jargon/real_jargon_antisocial.htm In psychology, the term antisocial refers to a personality disorder in which a person consistently disregards and violates other people's rights, not someone who doesn't like to hang out with other people. The term antisocial is used as shorthand for Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD). In more extreme cases, the term may be used interchangeably with sociopathy , a condition in which the individual lacks a conscience. People speaking of "psychopaths" are also referring to people with APD. People who have an antisocial personality disorder are not psychotic. [Psychosis: A loss of contact with reality as most people experience it, usually characterized by hallucinations and/or delusions. ] Behaviors diagnostic of APD include persistent and characterological disregard of social norms and lawful behaviors, refusal to take work or financial obligations seriously; lying, conning, and cheating; recklessness, impulsivity, aggressiveness and fighting, and a failure to feel bad about any of it. So what should we call someone who doesn't like to hang out with others? If a psychological professional wants to say someone avoids spending time (or excessive time) with other people, she'd use a different word. For example, she might say the person is introverted, likes to keep himself, prefers his own company, or is uncomfortable with other people, depending on the circumstances. A "psychopathic" disorder is defined more broadly in the European Union In the EU, "psychopathic...means a persistent disorder or disability of mind (whether or not including significant impairment of intelligence) which results in abnormally aggressive or seriously irresponsible conduct on the part of the person concerned." While the aggressiveness and irresponsibility speak to the same antisocial diagnosis, the definition is broad enough that it could also refer to other problems or disorders.

I do have someone working on an article for the site on antisocial PD, so if anyone wants more info, send me the questions and I will make sure she includes that information in the article!! Sooner is better with that. You can PM me via gatchamania or email me through archetypewriting.com to be sure I get them; I will also try to watch this thread and pick up questions, but sometimes I notice I miss a post here and there as I read. b) What is the difference between schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and obsessive/compulsive disorder? Schizophrenia is a genetic disease in which the person has too much DA in their brain. It causes a loss of contact with reality (hallucinations, strange ideas) along with strange and distorted perceptions, behavior, and speech. They may jumble words when they talk and sound nonsensical, they may be still (catatonic) for long periods of time, or they may behave in a childlike, disorganized way. People with schizophrenia or bipolar often go bck and forth being diagnosed one and then the other by different doctors. Bipolar is slightly less stigmatizing than schizophrenia, so I don't blame anyone for wanting to be that if they had to choose. Since people with bipolar disorder sometimes act strangely and have hallucinations and delusions as well, one trick to telling the difference -- people with schizophrenia don't have a good sense of humor. They take everything literally (we call that being too concrete). People with bipolar disorder tend to have a good sense of humor, at least when they feel ok. Bipolar folks also tend to output good creative work, people with schizophrenia are too disorganized to do so. Bipolar disorder is an inherited inability of the brain to regulate the brain chemicals NE (norepinephrine), 5-HT (serotonin), and DA (dopamine). More info on that here http://archetypewriting.com/real/jargon/real_jargon_NT.htm and here -- scroll to the bottom for the info on brain chemicals and drugs http://archetypewriting.com/articles/articles_ck/moodOverview.htm Alcoholism is extremely common in people with Bipolar -- about 60% are alcoholics. OCD is also genetic. The part of the brain that regulates instinctive urges (frontal lobes) don't seem to communicate well with the part of the brain that has the urges (limbic system). The person therefore has OBSESSIONS -- thoughts that won't go away and really bother them -- that can be eased through COMPULSIONS, or ritual behaviors like checking, washing, etc.

Rest of the post. It was too long for one post!! Look at me go!

Quoting myself from http://archetypewriting.com/articles/articles_ck/moodOverview.htm Let's tart with terminology: Bipolar disorder and manic depression are the same thing. People with Bipolar Disorder experience both the down state already described in the major depression section above and an up state of elevated, expansive, or irritable moods. In a full-blown manic state, people experience * An increase in energy, flamboyance * Decreased need for sleep (think little to none) * mania and depression Inflated self esteem, sometimes to the point of grandiosity * Talkativeness to the point that they sound pressured, as if they cant stop talking * Racing thoughts, which usually manifests as jumping from topic to topic, sometimes so quickly they dont make much sense. * Short attention span and easy distractibility (yes, this gets misdiagnosed as ADHD a lot) * Poor judgment, often leading to decisions that are harmful, such as spending sprees, careless sex (even when married), and dangerous risk-taking * Poor impulse control, including saying things that cause later repercussions * Irritability and aggressiveness, including starting fights * Strange thoughts not based in reality (delusions) and strange behaviors * Increased sex drive * Hallucinations (seeing, hearing, or feeling things that are not really there) Allan Seager relates poet Theodore Roethkes experience of mania in The Glass House: The Life of Theodore Roethke: "For no reason I started to feel very good. Suddenly I knew how to enter into the life of everything around me. I knew how it felt to be a tree, a blade of grass, even a rabbit. I didn't sleep much. I just walked around with this wonderful feeling. One day I was passing a diner and all of a sudden I knew what it felt like to be a lion. I went into the diner and said to the counter-man, Bring me a steak. Don't cook it. Just bring it.So he brought me this raw steak and I started eating it. The other customers made like they were revolted, watching me. And I began to see that maybe it was a little strange." Graphic I did for the article:

quoting myself from http://archetypewriting.com/articles/articles_ck/resources_psych_articles_DID.htm Schizophrenia is a genetic problem that is caused, at least in part, by problems in brain chemistry. Symptoms can include hallucinations, delusions, odd speech, strange behavior or catatonia, and negative symptoms, which often look like severe depression. The problems have to last at least a month, and they have to cause problems in the person's life.

quoting myself from http://archetypewriting.com/articles/articles_ck/anxOverview.htm Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD) is characterized by obsessions (thoughts and feelings of dread that wont go away) that are relieved by compulsions (ritualistic behaviors that ward off the fear caused by the obsession). Psychologists originally thought that OCD was existential or symbolic in nature. They believed, for example, that fears of germs and compulsive washing were thought to be because the person somehow felt soiled, dirty, or contaminated. Though some OCD may in fact be symbolic or existential, in many people it seems to have a strong biological component. Medications that increase the brain chemical serotonin seem to reduce OCD symptoms significantly in many patients. Movies that portray OCD * As Good As It Gets * Matchstick Men

More information on OCD- another article on the site: http://archetypewriting.com/articles/OCDoverview.htm If it makes you feel any better at all, everyone has mental illness in their family. That's a dirty little secret. Some just have the kinds that are easier to hide. And some folks have more practice hiding it than others. So as alone as you may feel sometimes, I promise you're not.

duplicate post oopsie!

WOW!!! You know they say mental illness is the hardest thing at times to diagnose because to that person they just think it's normal... Its the people who are around them that see the wrong or strange behaviour. ITA Katsesama...it's in every family to a degree, and it can surface at odd times. These days we have a better understanding on it. Though the mind is forever evolving, and if we knew everything with it, or see it straight away, then we wouldn't have people who look normal go insane and go on a killing spree!

http://archetypewriting.com/articles/articles_ck/moodOverview.htm

Alcoholism is extremely common in people with Bipolar -- about 60% are alcoholics. OCD is also genetic. The part of the brain that regulates instinctive urges (frontal lobes) don't seem to communicate well with the part of the brain that has the urges (limbic system). The person therefore has OBSESSIONS -- thoughts that won't go away and really bother them -- that can be eased through COMPULSIONS, or ritual behaviors like checking, washing, etc.

Kimi...I know your question was serious... but when I read this last part Katsesama...I put my hands on my cheeks and cried out... "Oh NO!!!!" I've been told I'm obsessive about Gatchaman...I have a good sense of humour...I go through creative spirts keep me awake at night...and I like my red wine, just ask TJ she'll confirm that truth of that... Book me in!!!

LOL!! Ebony...We all have our quirks. I guess it boils down to what you consider normal behaviour. We don't consider our little Gatch obsession strange, but others might think it downright weird! And Thank You Katsesama for all the help and info. I also suffer from depression. I take SSRI's which also help with my migraines, and to some degree my allergy symptoms. It funny how one medication can help with so many things...everything seems to be connected. Throw in bad eyesight, bad teeth, bad knees, a little arthritis & tendonitis, once a month wonky hormones, and my all around "bad attitude" *snerk*....shake vigorously...and voila...you have me!

Originally posted by kimiko LOL!! Ebony...We all have our quirks. I guess it boils down to what you consider normal behaviour. We don't consider our little Gatch obsession strange, but others might think it downright weird! And Thank You Katsesama for all the help and info. I also suffer from depression. I take SSRI's which also help with my migraines, and to some degree my allergy symptoms. It funny how one medication can help with so many things...everything seems to be connected. Throw in bad eyesight, bad teeth, bad knees, a little arthritis & tendonitis, once a month wonky hormones, and my all around "bad attitude" *snerk*....shake vigorously...and voila...you have me!

And we love you for it as well Kimi.

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne WOW!!! You know they say mental illness is the hardest thing at times to diagnose because to that person they just think it's normal... Its the people who are around them that see the wrong or strange behaviour.

Ebony, you are so right! My BIL is actually having a mental episode right now. He is having a major issue and does not see it, even though his wife, parents, best friends, and I all see it and have told him. We even tried bringing him to a psychologist, which was an absolute disaster (it made him more irate to the point that both my sister and I were afraid he would do something to us). Not that I want to get into major details about this, because, to be perfectly honest, I think I have emotionally shut down due to it, but it seems that he has somehow become obsessed with me, to the point that he was doing things for me and not for his wife (went to the psychologist for me, asked me if I was ok but would yell at my sister, etc). (I'm going to backtrack here for just a moment... When I moved back from FL, I moved in with my sister and BIL until I could get back on my feet. I have and I now have my own place, which I officially moved into yesterday.) There are a bunch of other things/issues going on (like he didn't speak to me for 2 months and was screaming at my sister that I needed to leave, then an epiphany occurred and he started talking to me again. Three days later he was asking me to reneg on the lease I signed.) Anyway, I digress... BIL is absolutely beside himself that I'm moving out, to the point that he was on his knees begging me to stay Saturday night. At my wits end, I finally "broke up" with him, at least that's what it felt like to me... And yesterday I physically left to complete the "break-up". I believe this was the right thing to do, since after the psychologist disaster, it seemed I really needed to take things into my own hands. (and yes, I know this isn't my problem - I'm the SIL, not the wife or the parents). My thinking on this was that if the source of the obsession was to leave then maybe the obsession itself would dissipate. I'm staying away and not going to even speak to him this week (especially since he called me last night - less than 6 hours after I left. I saw it was him and didn't answer the phone.) It was interesting when I left yesterday... BIL made me feel like I was going to my own funeral. It got to the point that I actually yelled at him for that ("I'm not dying, damn it! I'm only moving 10 minutes across town!") I know this was probably disjointed, and he has many other underlying issues that I won't get into, but it's been about 2 weeks since BIL's breakdown began and since he refuses help, I don't see an end in sight. I'm emotionally spent having to deal with it, not to mention the added stress of moving, and having to support my sister through all this. Anyway, just to bring this around, Ebony, you are 100% correct that the people with the problem don't see it. And the only thing that makes it harder is when they won't believe you or believe that you're trying to do the best thing for them when you try to get them help.

Originally posted by kimiko LOL!! Ebony...We all have our quirks. I guess it boils down to what you consider normal behaviour. We don't consider our little Gatch obsession strange, but others might think it downright weird! And Thank You Katsesama for all the help and info. I also suffer from depression. I take SSRI's which also help with my migraines, and to some degree my allergy symptoms. It funny how one medication can help with so many things...everything seems to be connected. Throw in bad eyesight, bad teeth, bad knees, a little arthritis & tendonitis, once a month wonky hormones, and my all around "bad attitude" *snerk*....shake vigorously...and voila...you have me!

We love you Kimi!

Originally posted by kimiko LOL!! Ebony...We all have our quirks. I guess it boils down to what you consider normal behaviour. We don't consider our little Gatch obsession strange, but others might think it downright weird! And Thank You Katsesama for all the help and info. I also suffer from depression. I take SSRI's which also help with my migraines, and to some degree my allergy symptoms. It funny how one medication can help with so many things...everything seems to be connected. Throw in bad eyesight, bad teeth, bad knees, a little arthritis & tendonitis, once a month wonky hormones, and my all around "bad attitude" *snerk*....shake vigorously...and voila...you have me!

Awww...Kimi...I'm in the SSRI club with ya, baby! I'm on depression meds, too...I've had a lot of RL garbage to deal with lately and just couldn't shake it off. Glad to hear the meds are helping you!! I'm loving those happy pills!

Originally posted by Hinotori Ebony, you are so right! My BIL is actually having a mental episode right now. He is having a major issue and does not see it, even though his wife, parents, best friends, and I all see it and have told him. We even tried bringing him to a psychologist, which was an absolute disaster (it made him more irate to the point that both my sister and I were afraid he would do something to us). Not that I want to get into major details about this, because, to be perfectly honest, I think I have emotionally shut down due to it, but it seems that he has somehow become obsessed with me, to the point that he was doing things for me and not for his wife (went to the psychologist for me, asked me if I was ok but would yell at my sister, etc). (I'm going to backtrack here for just a moment... When I moved back from FL, I moved in with my sister and BIL until I could get back on my feet. I have and I now have my own place, which I officially moved into yesterday.) There are a bunch of other things/issues going on (like he didn't speak to me for 2 months and was screaming at my sister that I needed to leave, then an epiphany occurred and he started talking to me again. Three days later he was asking me to reneg on the lease I signed.) Anyway, I digress... BIL is absolutely beside himself that I'm moving out, to the point that he was on his knees begging me to stay Saturday night. At my wits end, I finally "broke up" with him, at least that's what it felt like to me... And yesterday I physically left to complete the "break-up". I believe this was the right thing to do, since after the psychologist disaster, it seemed I really needed to take things into my own hands. (and yes, I know this isn't my problem - I'm the SIL, not the wife or the parents). My thinking on this was that if the source of the obsession was to leave then maybe the obsession itself would dissipate. I'm staying away and not going to even speak to him this week (especially since he called me last night - less than 6 hours after I left. I saw it was him and didn't answer the phone.) It was interesting when I left yesterday... BIL made me feel like I was going to my own funeral. It got to the point that I actually yelled at him for that ("I'm not dying, damn it! I'm only moving 10 minutes across town!") I know this was probably disjointed, and he has many other underlying issues that I won't get into, but it's been about 2 weeks since BIL's breakdown began and since he refuses help, I don't see an end in sight. I'm emotionally spent having to deal with it, not to mention the added stress of moving, and having to support my sister through all this. Anyway, just to bring this around, Ebony, you are 100% correct that the people with the problem don't see it. And the only thing that makes it harder is when they won't believe you or believe that you're trying to do the best thing for them when you try to get them help.

I'm glad to hear you found your own place to live Hino! It's hard staying with other people even if they are your family. I'll pray that he accepts help soon, addiction works the same way, but it happens over time. I feel for your sister, it's probably hardest for her to see him like that, I bet she must be wondering what happened to the man she married. You spend your life studying this topic and still not know all the answers as to why it happens. Katsesama shed some light on the chemical inbalances that can happen. King George III of England was noted to have "lost his mind." These days they have ideas of what happened to his mental state. He was mentally unfit to rule in the last decade of his reign; his eldest son - the later George IV - acted as Prince Regent from 1811. Some medical historians have said that George III's mental instability was caused by a hereditary physical disorder calledporphyria. I've never heard of that before. But I found this information; http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/porphyria/

Originally posted by Hinotori

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne WOW!!! You know they say mental illness is the hardest thing at times to diagnose because to that person they just think it's normal... Its the people who are around them that see the wrong or strange behaviour.

Ebony, you are so right! My BIL is actually having a mental episode right now. He is having a major issue and does not see it, even though his wife, parents, best friends, and I all see it and have told him. We even tried bringing him to a psychologist, which was an absolute disaster (it made him more irate to the point that both my sister and I were afraid he would do something to us). Not that I want to get into major details about this, because, to be perfectly honest, I think I have emotionally shut down due to it, but it seems that he has somehow become obsessed with me, to the point that he was doing things for me and not for his wife (went to the psychologist for me, asked me if I was ok but would yell at my sister, etc). (I'm going to backtrack here for just a moment... When I moved back from FL, I moved in with my sister and BIL until I could get back on my feet. I have and I now have my own place, which I officially moved into yesterday.) There are a bunch of other things/issues going on (like he didn't speak to me for 2 months and was screaming at my sister that I needed to leave, then an epiphany occurred and he started talking to me again. Three days later he was asking me to reneg on the lease I signed.) Anyway, I digress... BIL is absolutely beside himself that I'm moving out, to the point that he was on his knees begging me to stay Saturday night. At my wits end, I finally "broke up" with him, at least that's what it felt like to me... And yesterday I physically left to complete the "break-up". I believe this was the right thing to do, since after the psychologist disaster, it seemed I really needed to take things into my own hands. (and yes, I know this isn't my problem - I'm the SIL, not the wife or the parents). My thinking on this was that if the source of the obsession was to leave then maybe the obsession itself would dissipate. I'm staying away and not going to even speak to him this week (especially since he called me last night - less than 6 hours after I left. I saw it was him and didn't answer the phone.) It was interesting when I left yesterday... BIL made me feel like I was going to my own funeral. It got to the point that I actually yelled at him for that ("I'm not dying, damn it! I'm only moving 10 minutes across town!") I know this was probably disjointed, and he has many other underlying issues that I won't get into, but it's been about 2 weeks since BIL's breakdown began and since he refuses help, I don't see an end in sight. I'm emotionally spent having to deal with it, not to mention the added stress of moving, and having to support my sister through all this. Anyway, just to bring this around, Ebony, you are 100% correct that the people with the problem don't see it. And the only thing that makes it harder is when they won't believe you or believe that you're trying to do the best thing for them when you try to get them help.

Hino, it must be tough to be caught up in a situation like that! I hope your BIL and sis get some help with this! And I hope things get better for you! We're here for you, too!

Oh, Hino so sorry to hear about your RL situation. from me. Keep showing up here and we will give you the support and laughter you need to help you through.

Originally posted by katsesama Allan Seager relates poet Theodore Roethkes experience of mania in The Glass House: The Life of Theodore Roethke: "For no reason I started to feel very good. Suddenly I knew how to enter into the life of everything around me. I knew how it felt to be a tree, a blade of grass, even a rabbit. I didn't sleep much. I just walked around with this wonderful feeling. One day I was passing a diner and all of a sudden I knew what it felt like to be a lion. I went into the diner and said to the counter-man, Bring me a steak. Don't cook it. Just bring it.So he brought me this raw steak and I started eating it. The other customers made like they were revolted, watching me. And I began to see that maybe it was a little strange."

This sounds very familiar to me when I was a child. I was fascinated with animals and would always micmic them, staulking and actually catching (but not killing)snakes, birds, mice, frogs, rabbits and bring them back to my mom, who at most times was horrified...not like I bit their heads off or anything! LOL I remember in gym class I found I could always run a race faster if I pretended I was a cheetah, or jump higher if I 'was' a deer or climb a tree or balance and walk on a fence if I 'was' a cat. Funny, I could never get that "flying" thing down though even with the 'blanket cape'!! LOL Was it just me or do many kids do this? Is this a form of learning?

Thanks for the good thoughts everyone! It does help knowing that people understand and are there for you. This board has been my saving grace the past 2 weeks. It's been my comic relief and given me the breaks from RL that I needed. So thank you to everyone for just being you! Kimi and Springie, hope you two are doing better too! And Kimi, what is it with the in-laws (your MIL, my BIL)??? Anyway, thanks for the sounding board. Everyone keep doing what your doing and I think all of us with these horrible RL issues will eventually be okl!

Originally posted by Springie Awww...Kimi...I'm in the SSRI club with ya, baby! I'm on depression meds, too...I've had a lot of RL garbage to deal with lately and just couldn't shake it off. Glad to hear the meds are helping you!! I'm loving those happy pills!

Yep I'm a Paxil puppy! I'm happy they're helping you too Springie! I know they're helping me...(at least I won't have to look for places to hide the bodies!) LMAO! Seriously tho it was getting to that point at work where I was going to get into fisticuffs with my ex-boss and I thought hmmm...pills or jail???

Originally posted by HinotoriI know this was probably disjointed, and he has many other underlying issues that I won't get into, but it's been about 2 weeks since BIL's breakdown began and since he refuses help, I don't see an end in sight. I'm emotionally spent having to deal with it, not to mention the added stress of moving, and having to support my sister through all this.

I think you're doing the right thing Hino. Since he doesn't think he needs or wants help, he's a lost cause for the moment. You've got to take care of yourself first. Once you're secure, then you can help your sister. And if he finally comes round then you can help BIL...You can lead a horse to water.... I wonder if he's got his male 'men'opause...decreasing hormones can throw the guys for a loop too. Hino, Ebony, CD, Katsesama...everybody! I luvs yas! See this is good therapy!

Yeah, ITA...you guys are the best! I love being able to escape RL for a bit and have a good laugh!!

Share the lovin' around I say!

Here are two sites by a multiple who I know as a valuable member of an open source project. Her identities seem a bit more fluid than K's friend describes; some of them talk to each other, or work together, and some groups are unaware of other groups. I don't know if she's a typical multiple, but she's fairly open her own experiences. http://www.kinhost.org/ http://crisses.org/Blog/Blog

Originally posted by clouddancer If TJ were here she would say "it is your Universe you are writing in so anything is possible," but unfortunately my sounding board is enjoying herself in the sun in Australia, so she cannot say that.

Um.... withuot having read the resopnses (I'm trying to make the most of the few minutes I have here) I would say: It is your universe, CD, so anything is possible. Okay, now that that's out of the way... yes, lots of people have repressed memories, or sides to their personalities that they choose not to display. You could also make this a facet of the Rigan powers. Have you read the Terry Goodkind novels? I know Ebony has because we were mentioning it at some point... anyhow, in the first book, the main character, a wizard, partitions his mind so that when he goes through mental torture that he will have part of his sanity to return to. this is one of the requirements for becoming a azard. Perhaps then in your universe this could be a Riagn talent: the ability to partition one's mind and lock away certain things that they do not wish anyone else to see. And since the team ha never had any formal training, they could be as good, or as poor, at it as you like. Does this work for you?

Okay, I just saw some of the toher posts in this thread and Hino... oh, Hino... I had no idea that all of this was wrapped up in your moving out. I'm so sorry that you had o go through that and I hope that things are going better for you now. And Springie, I didn't realize that things were that bad,,, now I feel terrible not being there for you. Just know that you have plenty of from me whenever you want them... I'll send them constantly. You are in my thoughts now... Good Swannie Karma is coming across the waves..... And Kimi, I'm glad things are going better for you. Know that you always have a place to hang out here and de-stress, if you need it.

Originally posted by Transmute Jun

Originally posted by clouddancer If TJ were here she would say "it is your Universe you are writing in so anything is possible," but unfortunately my sounding board is enjoying herself in the sun in Australia, so she cannot say that.

Um.... withuot having read the resopnses (I'm trying to make the most of the few minutes I have here) I would say: It is your universe, CD, so anything is possible. Okay, now that that's out of the way... yes, lots of people have repressed memories, or sides to their personalities that they choose not to display. You could also make this a facet of the Rigan powers. Have you read the Terry Goodkind novels? I know Ebony has because we were mentioning it at some point... anyhow, in the first book, the main character, a wizard, partitions his mind so that when he goes through mental torture that he will have part of his sanity to return to. this is one of the requirements for becoming a azard. Perhaps then in your universe this could be a Riagn talent: the ability to partition one's mind and lock away certain things that they do not wish anyone else to see. And since the team ha never had any formal training, they could be as good, or as poor, at it as you like. Does this work for you?

Wow! Some how I just came across this post TJ, not sure how I missed it earlier. You know, all these comments you made are very much like I imagine in my universe. So TJ now I am thinking: you seem to be so in tune with my world, what is the point in my writing for you? Or .... why don?t you write my stories for me? Then I can go back to my boring life. <------ Cloud going back to her life of hiding.

Originally posted by clouddancer Some how I just came across this post TJ, not sure how I missed it earlier. You know, all these comments you made are very much like I imagine in my universe. So TJ now I am thinking: you seem to be so in tune with my world, what is the point in my writing for you? Or .... why don?t you write my stories for me? Then I can go back to my boring life. <------ Cloud going back to her life of hiding.

Okay, CD, I like you. So I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt. I am going to assume that you are asking me to CO-AUTHOR with you, to which I will politely decline due to an overabundance of things on my plate at the moment. Besides which, there is no way I could know enough about your universe to properly write all of the nuances that are necessary to explain what is happening in it. Besides... just ask Hino... when I try to write a quick scene, I just end up smut-izing fics. Did I get your phrasing right, Hino? I am NOT going to assume that you just suggested that you chuck the whole thing (into my lap, or anywhere else). I think you are too smart, and that these stories are too important to you, and too personal to you, CD. In addition to the depth of AU you have created, and the many wonderful stories running through it, you have a personal need to do this YOURSELF, CD. You NEED to silence those voices for once and for all. And besides that... don't you want to use the hint I gave you for dealing with them? ?

Well, I expected a response but not such a "heated" one. Cloud steps back cringing, I feel well chastised. I really do not intend to throw everything, into your lap or anywhere else. You are right about one thing. I would have a very hard time releasing my Universe for someone else to write. The little nuances of the characters would never come across in someone elses writing. After I posted that response I realized that. And I am using the hint you gave me in the story I am writing now. And although, for now, it has made the voices louder. I am enjoying being able to laugh at them.

Wow, There is so much information here and I think I will need to take time and read in more detail. What is being said assists with adding depth to stories in some situations I think. Thank you all for sharing!

HIno and Kimi all I can say to you both is come here and get this! You both deserve it

Originally posted by Springie

Originally posted by kimiko LOL!! Ebony...We all have our quirks. I guess it boils down to what you consider normal behaviour. We don't consider our little Gatch obsession strange, but others might think it downright weird! And Thank You Katsesama for all the help and info. I also suffer from depression. I take SSRI's which also help with my migraines, and to some degree my allergy symptoms. It funny how one medication can help with so many things...everything seems to be connected. Throw in bad eyesight, bad teeth, bad knees, a little arthritis & tendonitis, once a month wonky hormones, and my all around "bad attitude" *snerk*....shake vigorously...and voila...you have me!

Awww...Kimi...I'm in the SSRI club with ya, baby! I'm on depression meds, too...I've had a lot of RL garbage to deal with lately and just couldn't shake it off. Glad to hear the meds are helping you!! I'm loving those happy pills!

I have been on Citalopram for a year now and I am hoping the doctor will remove it. Have to say one of the things that has kept me going through the last year (aside from DH and son) is all of you. I hope whatever you are oN Springie is helping

I will probably be on Paxil for the rest of my life. Dad has a chemical imbalance and it is most likely heriditary and I can see similarities in myself. Right now Dad is no longer on meds and he is a nagging bitchy old man, and I don't want to be like that. He's trying to tell me to stop taking Paxil...yadda yadda yadda...I know I'm much happier taking the meds, and they have a double bonus of helping for the migraines... I still get incapacitated some days by them but they are much better. You're the only one that knows if it is time to go off the meds...I certainly know when I forget to take mine....(insert nasty migraine here). Your doc will probably ween you off it by taking lower dosages.

You have my sympathies Kimi. I agree with you about knowing when you missed it though.

Originally posted by clouddancer Well, I expected a response but not such a "heated" one. Cloud steps back cringing, I feel well chastised.[/i] Well, it wasn't meant to chastize, only to lecture (in a kindly way). I just want to make sure you 'see the light', CD. [quote]Originally posted by clouddancer And I am using the hint you gave me in the story I am writing now. And although, for now, it has made the voices louder. I am enjoying being able to laugh at them.

That's terrific, CD! I know they're squirming right now... bwaaa haaa haaa......

Originally posted by kimiko I will probably be on Paxil for the rest of my life. Dad has a chemical imbalance and it is most likely heriditary and I can see similarities in myself. Right now Dad is no longer on meds and he is a nagging bitchy old man, and I don't want to be like that. He's trying to tell me to stop taking Paxil...yadda yadda yadda...I know I'm much happier taking the meds, and they have a double bonus of helping for the migraines... I still get incapacitated some days by them but they are much better. You're the only one that knows if it is time to go off the meds...I certainly know when I forget to take mine....(insert nasty migraine here). Your doc will probably ween you off it by taking lower dosages.

Kimi I have known people with these imbalances and it hard for them to cope day to day. Lots of people just brush it off and depression as well... Sorry to hear Springie that your RL stuff is that bad for you...I"ll pray that some good stuff comes into you life soon and the bad RL stuff eases. I know what its like to be depressed...years of trying for children can do that to you. It can break up the most stable marriages when your on fertility drugs etc and the missing part of your heart when you lose a baby even in the early stages, and no one can tell you why...just is. DH and I went through a lot before we became adoptive parents and despite all the settling in time we have had with her over the past three months they have been our happiest in a long time... So keep going girls because there is a light at the end of the tunnel...you just have keep walking towards it...and keep hope there with ya.

Aww, thanks for the well wishes, girls...we came close to losing everything, but things are steadily improving. Hubby's new job was supposed to start this month, but it has to be pushed back a month (red tape). So he starts at the end of next month. Ah, the joys of working for the city... So, by this summer we *should* be back to normal. I think they plan on keeping me on these depression meds for a year, though...

I am sure things will work out soon Springie and who knows the new job may make things a lot better!

Originally posted by Firebird I am sure things will work out soon Springie and who knows the new job may make things a lot better!

to everyone! My finances are starting to look up finally.... I was in the same boat Springie...bancruptcy...evicted...problems at work, problems at home....*gack*...things are starting to up now.

Oh, Kimi...I had no idea...so glad things are getting better for you, too!

Kimi that is wonderful news

Thanks guys...keeping my fingers crossed and knocking on all available wood surfaces and avoiding putting out any mirrors at work!

I am glad to hear that things are getting better for everyone. to you, Springie and Kimi! Remember that when things get bad, we are always here to engage in some silliness to lift your spirits, or commiseration if you need it.

we are especially good at the silliness

For the record, it takes about a year for your brain to "re-learn" to use its natural chemicals correctly -- that's why you need to take the meds that long, even when you feel better. I had never heard "Paxil Puppy" before -- I like that.

Puppies! Did someone say puppies? I'm really good at saving puppies...

Originally posted by Springie Aww, thanks for the well wishes, girls...we came close to losing everything, but things are steadily improving. Hubby's new job was supposed to start this month, but it has to be pushed back a month (red tape). So he starts at the end of next month. Ah, the joys of working for the city... So, by this summer we *should* be back to normal. I think they plan on keeping me on these depression meds for a year, though...

Springie...I hope it's sooner for you to come off them, but listen to your doctor and get a check up to make sure...a year is a long time. But I didn't read Evas post before I wrote this...please excuse my ignorance, no harm intended. I don't know anything about brain chemicals (you know I wasn't allowed to take anything when I got really depressed because if I fell pregnant it could affect the baby...talk about irony of it all since I did everything right and I still miscarried each time...after taking years to fall pregnant, so I had to find other ways to deal with it...) ...And when your RL situation improves sooner than expected...

Glad things are doing better for both of you, Springie and Kimi!! I keep hoping things will soon change on my side of the screen!

Ebony, I am so glad that all of your trials led to a happy ending...I'm sure your little swannie gives you much to smile about...she is so precious!

Glad things are doing better for both of you, Springie and Kimi!! I keep hoping things will soon change on my side of the screen!

Hino, I am sending warm fuzzies and well wishes your way...hope things get better for you soon! Remember, we are here for you!

The pressure we got when our daughter came along was financial, we just settled contracts and payment on an investment property, when we did it it was going to be a bit tight for a while but with 2 incomes we could manage it...then a week later I had to quit my job to look after our new daughter..talk about a life change in a short period...DH is still stressed about making repayments...so am I, but we'll find a way to make it all work. But we'll cope...you always do no matter the circumstances...

WHatever happens, it will be worth it in the end with that beautiful angel you have, Ebony!

I was just trying the only thing I know empathy...Springie...keep your pics coming, thats good theropy and besides we love em!!!Grins

Thanks, baybee...the pics will be back...hopefully soon...

We're waiting.....

Mayne we need to write something that will inspire a pic from Springie? Anything you want done Springie?

LOL...I actually have quite a few I am working on...but still trying to get Photoshop back...I am hitting dead ends every way I turn...

Awwww...how sweet ...I actually have quite a few I am working on...but still trying to get Photoshop back...I am hitting dead ends every way I turn...

Springie, God will take care of you when you put your faith in him. I'm probably not allowed to say something like that on the forum board, but it's true. I've never been to a mental health professional, nor have I ever been on any type of medication. Some people would say that I am crazy because of this, which makes no sense whatsoever. Perhaps they feel I'm in some sort of denial. If I saw a mental health doctor, I am quite convinced they would find a laundry lis of thing wrong with me, and then I could have all the medicine I could ever want for the rest of my life. Taking pills gives you side effects, which they give you more pills to fix. The cycle repeats, Insert favorite medical condition here, _______. But I don't know everything. I'm just on a rant I guess....lol

In my country the culture about mental health had to change...it was frowned on to take pills for depression, if you were having a hard time basically you were told to toughen up and learn to deal with issues yourself. I'm from a small country town so especially in my family it was not accepted to seek help for problems, and if you went to Physiologist you must have serious mental issues...bad way of thinking I know, but I guess they didn't have access to help like they do in the city in when they were young...so it came from then having to deal with poverty and other issues alone I guess, then there were a one or two alcoholics in the family over the years. (My mother ended on anxiety pills for a year, but it was hushed up and not spoken about outside of the family by dad who didn't want people thinking mum had lost it.) In recent years they ran ads on TV to help try and change the attitude within the community towards mental health and that people who suffered from it can recover and have normal lives and it's OK to seek help. And I have about fifty books on personal development etc...When it gets tough in life I read then over and over to help adjust my thinking. I do feel though you know within yourself if there is something not right, then you do what you need to to help yourself get better. Tone it doesn't bother me if you turn to God...I do all the time...I'm a Christen, just not closed minded thats all. But I have limits.

Thanks, guys...yeah, I know what you mean. Prayer is a powerful thing... things are getting better... I grew up with the same mentality, Ebony...as a matter of fact, my mom told me to toughen up and berated me for going to get help...but i'm glad i did...it's weird that depression can actually have physical side effects, and that is what finally drove me to get help...the meds have really helped me...but i am looking forward to getting off of them... Tone, you might be surprised how much talking to your doctor might help...if things get too bad, give it a try...

I'm just glad that you got help, SPringie. I hate to thin of you being depressed!

Originally posted by Springie Thanks, guys...yeah, I know what you mean. Prayer is a powerful thing... things are getting better... I grew up with the same mentality, Ebony...as a matter of fact, my mom told me to toughen up and berated me for going to get help...but i'm glad i did...it's weird that depression can actually have physical side effects, and that is what finally drove me to get help...the meds have really helped me...but i am looking forward to getting off of them... Tone, you might be surprised how much talking to your doctor might help...if things get too bad, give it a try...

Well I'm glad your helping yourself and I know you'll get through it...as it is life is slowly coming good for you now with your DH starting a new job. I have a DVD and book called 'The Secret'. Thats the best book on my book shelf. I saw 'the secret' when it was first released, very powerful but an amazing principle to live by. Tone you may wanna look into it...you will be blown away with what you can do to change your current path to get what you want... Anyway enough of that from me! LOL

OK I decided I"m going to share a perception with you... I think you'll laugh actually...(because it's as stupid as thinking we stop the traffic on Sydney Harbour Bridge to let the Kangaroos cross.) Some Aussies think that most Americans have their own shrink or one for every issue...(it's because of all the TV shows I think.) You have to look at that one with some humour, it's like some of the perceptions people have of Australia...

LOL.... sometimes I THINK I need a shrink, living in the US!

Life that hectic TJ or is it just being a wife and mother that is enough to drive you insane...hehehee

Tone, I am a firm believer in each to their own so like Springie I can only speak from my experience. Before the meds I felt more and more drained, my family too was from the "just get on with it variety" But I knew i was not right. I was sleeping all the time when not at work, no interest in eatingand I became frustrated and worse on a few occasions was incredibly silly when crossing the road. It was the second of those near misses that caused me to speak to someone who referred me straight away to my doctor. On speaking to the doctor I was diagnosed with severe depression and put on meds. I hate taking tablets but I have to say that in my case they have helped. I have been on them 4 months now and I am hoping the doctor will reduce the dose so I can work at getting off them but I learnt the hard way not to try too much too soon. I guess I am trying to say you will know in your own mind when you get to the point you need that help and at that point you will probably go and find it.

Whatever works for ya, works for ya. If it is religion, pills, or just having someone to talk to. All are beneficial ways of dealing with RL. Everybody's different.

Originally posted by Ebonyswanne Life that hectic TJ or is it just being a wife and mother that is enough to drive you insane...hehehee

And here I thought it was these boards.... Actually, I think these boards KEEP me sane!!!!!

I thought you'd get a kick out of that one... Mum's friends were having a conversation one day and the topic came up a few years ago. ROTFL! and it wasn't the first time I'd heard it either. I do have a sex Therapist...my DH, hahahaaaa

I just let things build up inside me really, I don't like to open up to people. I have to have alot of trust to do that, idk in a weird way it really helps me....... Untill I blow up on somebody then they don't usually get to happy about it lol.

Originally posted by damieon I just let things build up inside me really, I don't like to open up to people. I have to have alot of trust to do that, idk in a weird way it really helps me....... Untill I blow up on somebody then they don't usually get to happy about it lol.

You really are an Eagle then...move onto your true self and ditch RI...Ken stores it up and unleashes his anger when things don't go his way at times...

Have to agree with Ebony there Damieon that is typical eagle persona

hmmmm....... wow? lol so seriouslly?

Yep. seriously. I'm with them.

Yes. Be an eagle, Matt. I think it would suit you well. Especially when I go back to the red side. Now that would be a hell of a team...

You mean we would get to be spectators in all the father son disputes Tone?

More like father and son tag teaming on the rest of whoever wants a piece......

I can see you smacking each other around...

Ladies and Gentlemen.... Beavis and Butt-Head have entered the building... huh-huh huh-huh Just kidding. I'm getting on MY nerves just typing this....

Considering father and son dont tend to get along very too great a length of time. I think you will both find you are at each other more than the rest of us and should by some miracle you tolerate each other, well I think you will find there are more than enough devious minds here to cope.

Ebony rocks up and flops on the couch...she doesn't even look at her therapist as she begins to pour out her issues.. "It's been seven days since I last had a glass of red wine." She lets out a breath as she looks over at her new Therapist and raises an eyebrow at the man sitting in the chair with a note pad and pen. "It's alright babe." He smoothly tells her as he writes something down..."I totally understand all your emotional problems. "Joe?" Ebony questions as she looks at him."What are you doing here as my Therapist." "Racing doesn't pay well when you have Galactor on your tail all time...so I figured I'd try something new, I have experience you dealing with emotions...look at Ken I deal with his all the time." The Joe made a fist and Ebony shrank back into the couch. "If this doesn't work out then I might look into becoming a sex Therapist" he mused as he got comfortable in his seat. "So why did you decide to go dry...it can't be much fun." He began as she could see him drawing a race car on the note pad...

Sex therapist... Oh Dr. Asakura, are you taking new patients?

lol TJ I was just thinking he is more of a demonstator than a sit calmly and chat person.

That's what the couch is for! LOL

so who wants to write a fic about that?

lol I will consider doing that! Although, if I do go to eagle then I could keep my avatar because it has the eagle and RI on it, how SWEET?!?!?! lol

Originally posted by Firebird lol TJ I was just thinking he is more of a demonstator than a sit calmly and chat person.

He can demonstrate with me anytime...

Having someone you can talk to about absolutely anything is wonderful. Someone whose knowledge you trust; if you tell her something that really scares you, and she looks at that, along with everything else she knows about you, and isn't worried -- that's priceless. I'm grateful to the one who unintentionally gave me the final push down; it made me realize I wanted to get up, to really get up, and my old way wasn't working. By the end of the first therapy appointment, I felt better than I had in years. The first time I went off, cold-turkey, I was fine for a month, wobbly for a few weeks, then realized I was totally miserable and didn't try again for almost year. It's reassuring to know that a year is typical. Part of it is habit; if you're low, you snap more often and it becomes a habit. Whatever tools you use, you need time to replace the bad habits with good ones. The next time, I timed it after the worst time of the month. If I (and the family) survived it with little effect, then I was ready to drop the dose. If it was the least bit rough, the dose stayed the same, or even went up again. That way I never went too low, and had my monthly good time to compensate for the drop in dosage. I was comfortable with that schedule, even though it took twice as long. Like I said, I like where I am now, so can't really complain about how I got here.

Originally posted by Firebird lol TJ I was just thinking he is more of a demonstator than a sit calmly and chat person.

I just had this image of Joe not being able to race so he answers a add for a clinic thats looking for a new Couples Therapist so he applies and gets the Job, he figures it pays better than racing anyway, and Galactor would never pick him in that occupation...can you imagine the Condor trying to deal with peoples issues with his shoot first and ask questions later attitude... Jun and Ken turn up to an appointment not realizing it's Joe's new cover...hehehee Do you think i should do something with that idea????

Of course you should, Ebony!!!!!!

TJ can imagine the sessions...it would be a good one for Gatch 2 actually...Ken and Jun are having relationship issues, they aren't talking because of bedroom disagreements and then the Condor comes back and find he needs a new cover...hehehe I suppose I need an out line huh...

Go with it Ebony would love to see what you come up with

I will give me a few weeks and I'll do it.

I'm not sure about Gatch 2.... there was too much of a COndor/Swan undertone there. Actually, I think it suits Gatch F more. Joe seemed less impulsive then and more thoughtful. On more than one occasion he pulled Ken's butt from the fire when Ken was being impulsive (from his Hypershoot illness). Also, there is much more of an Eagle/Swan bent in Fighter.

I forgot to mention SLEEP!!! It doesn't matter what else I try, routines, supplements, more meds, affirmations, meditation, exercise, no sunglasses, diet, .... If I don't get a proper 8 hours at night, preferably nine, everything suffers. It's the death of a thousand cuts. I don't bother to fold the laundry, the dish washer isn't emptied till the last minute, I go on the computer instead of spending time with the kids (which may be just as well, given how when I'm low on sleep I'm less tolerant of normal kid behaviour, less able to redirect their energy or separate them before the yelling starts.) Small things, never enough to bother social services, but I want better for me and my family. I'm also more likely to say things I regret later and to obsess over things. Making it worse, if I go to bed late, I don't fall asleep as easily and don't sleep as well. Also, the first thing to suffer is the discipline it takes to go to bed on time the next night. If I do get enough sleep, all the other things have a chance of working. Joe as a therapist. His personality in the first series, no way! But I can see it in the future, after he's gotten bad enough to need it himself. He needs the extra trust in the profession (get past the idea that all they do is push meds, or coddle or enable or whatever other myths he believes -- and no doubt some professionals do do those things), and the understanding that comes with having been through it, and to get over idea that getting help means you're a miserable, helpless worm and a drain on society who will never pull his own weight. After that, yeah, as long as he makes it through the training. I doubt he'd learn well from someone he sees as wishy-washy or enabling. He'd be very good for the people who need to hear, "What you have been doing hasn't worked in the past, I, Joe, doubt it will work in the future. Here's a list of things that might work. Pick one. Until then, sure, I'll take your money, but don't expect to get better." I can also see him, after a few sessions (however many is typical for a client to get past the initial resistance, or maybe however many it took Joe to get past it), saying to come back when you're ready to try something that might work. He would understand the resistance, and recognize that he can't rush it, but not coddle it. Ken and Jun? He'd tell them to make up their minds.

Originally posted by Transmute Jun I'm not sure about Gatch 2.... there was too much of a COndor/Swan undertone there. Actually, I think it suits Gatch F more. Joe seemed less impulsive then and more thoughtful. On more than one occasion he pulled Ken's butt from the fire when Ken was being impulsive (from his Hypershoot illness). Also, there is much more of an Eagle/Swan bent in Fighter.

I guess it's because I tend to Fighter over the rest of the series...but then you could be right there. Cricket sometimes it's more amusing when it contradicts their personality...and more fun. Thats why I thought of it...it's that weird not very serious sense of humour that I have to see the funny side of a situation. I could see him sitting there getting frustrated and wondering what he was thinking...the job was suppose to pay better than racing, and now he hates listening to peoples issues...

Im just looking forward to reading it!

You know me, when I look at fic I take the least obvious path...and I like to experiment... OK it comes from working in Customer service, I have worked with people who came from jobs that didn't need contact with people and they thought it would be easy to work in customer service....LOL. The results have been interesting...thats why I could imagine if the Condor took on a job that he thought would be easy because in his opinion all he had to was pretend to listen, scribble a few notes and give his opinion and it will work out fine....give out a fake degree...little does he know...

thats why I could imagine if the Condor took on a job that he thought would be easy because in his opinion all he had to was pretend to listen, scribble a few notes and give his opinion and it will work out fine....give out a fake degree...little does he know...

OMG, I'm having convulsions.

After that, yeah, as long as he makes it through the training. I doubt he'd learn well from someone he sees as wishy-washy or enabling. He'd be very good for the people who need to hear, "What you have been doing hasn't worked in the past, I, Joe, doubt it will work in the future. Here's a list of things that might work. Pick one. Until then, sure, I'll take your money, but don't expect to get better." I can also see him, after a few sessions (however many is typical for a client to get past the initial resistance, or maybe however many it took Joe to get past it), saying to come back when you're ready to try something that might work. He would understand the resistance, and recognize that he can't rush it, but not coddle it.

So essentially Joe would do REBT (Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy), which (worst case) allows you to be abrasive as hell and it doesn't matter if your clients like you. Or Gestalt therapy, which would let him focus on personal responsibility. Most clients don't have "resistance," and that's a psychodynamic term, so Joe wouldn't believe in it whilst doing his REBT and Gestalt therapies. (People who are resistant to therapy either don't go or don't keep going.) I don't think you give him enough credit. Here's a guy that's dealt with repressed memories, combat, and being changed into something that could give Wolverine a run for his money. He'd probably make the best therapist of all, because he could understand where his clients are coming from!

Originally posted by katsesama I don't think you give him enough credit. Here's a guy that's dealt with repressed memories, combat, and being changed into something that could give Wolverine a run for his money. He'd probably make the best therapist of all, because he could understand where his clients are coming from!

Wolverine vs the condor?? Gatch vs the X-Men?? Oh man... I better get to work. That's good, Katse. That's soooo good.....

So Joe's a shrink now? I think I'm gonna schedule some therapy session at his cabinet. "Oh, mr. Condor, I just can't stop being evil!"

Originally posted by katsesama Most clients don't have "resistance," and that's a psychodynamic term, so Joe wouldn't believe in it whilst doing his REBT and Gestalt therapies. (People who are resistant to therapy either don't go or don't keep going.)

Amy I think you would fall under that category...LOL

Originally posted by katsesama

thats why I could imagine if the Condor took on a job that he thought would be easy because in his opinion all he had to was pretend to listen, scribble a few notes and give his opinion and it will work out fine....give out a fake degree...little does he know...

OMG, I'm having convulsions.

After that, yeah, as long as he makes it through the training. I doubt he'd learn well from someone he sees as wishy-washy or enabling. He'd be very good for the people who need to hear, "What you have been doing hasn't worked in the past, I, Joe, doubt it will work in the future. Here's a list of things that might work. Pick one. Until then, sure, I'll take your money, but don't expect to get better." I can also see him, after a few sessions (however many is typical for a client to get past the initial resistance, or maybe however many it took Joe to get past it), saying to come back when you're ready to try something that might work. He would understand the resistance, and recognize that he can't rush it, but not coddle it.

So essentially Joe would do REBT (Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy), which (worst case) allows you to be abrasive as hell and it doesn't matter if your clients like you. Or Gestalt therapy, which would let him focus on personal responsibility. Most clients don't have "resistance," and that's a psychodynamic term, so Joe wouldn't believe in it whilst doing his REBT and Gestalt therapies. (People who are resistant to therapy either don't go or don't keep going.) I don't think you give him enough credit. Here's a guy that's dealt with repressed memories, combat, and being changed into something that could give Wolverine a run for his money. He'd probably make the best therapist of all, because he could understand where his clients are coming from!

Katse...thats exactly what I was getting at... He'd have a different approach, not the soft touch, but he's not emotionally inept of doing the job. I just pictured him doing it and it made me giggle at how he would approach the whole thing...

Originally posted by Toneman

Originally posted by katsesama I don't think you give him enough credit. Here's a guy that's dealt with repressed memories, combat, and being changed into something that could give Wolverine a run for his money. He'd probably make the best therapist of all, because he could understand where his clients are coming from!

Wolverine vs the condor?? Gatch vs the X-Men?? Oh man... I better get to work. That's good, Katse. That's soooo good.....

Tone that would be your style so go for it!