As of today these new membership rules come into play. These are basically controls to help keep the member database up to date and retain server resources....and also to prevent those pesky porn robots trying to create bogus accounts. So lets review them shall we. New Registrations Any new registration that after 5 days is not activated will be deleted if the person registering doe's not complete the process by activating the account or does not contact the administration at [EMAIL=admin@gatchamania.net]admin@gatchamania.net[/EMAIL] to report a problem with their activation. New Members New members will have exactly 5 days from the activation of their account to make themselves known to the rest of the community by posting on the forums. Failure to post within these 5 days without giving prior notice to the adminstration will result in the account being deleted. New members will need to post or contribute to the discussions held on our forums at least once every 5 days unless they have given the adminstration prior notice that they may not be able too. If not their account will be blocked. Regular Members Regular members have a two week period in which to show they are still an active part of the community. If for any reason they are unable to contribute then they should notify the administration. Otherwise their account will be blocked. Blocked Accounts If you find your account blocked its not the end of the world. When an account is blocked all you need to do to reactivate it is give the administration an email to say your back, then all you need to do is post. New member accounts (those with less then 75 posts) that are blocked may be deleted or permenantly blocked after two weeks from their blocked date. Regular member accounts (those above 75 posts) will never be perma-blocked but will require an email to reactivate. A newsletter will be sent around to the members about this important change to their memberships. Regards Gatchamania.net Administration

Cep, With people going on holidays can these times be extended?

If people are going on holiday then I'm sure they will make us well aware of their absence on the forums or privately by email or PM. Besides going on holiday away from gatchamania.net is just not right!

Maybe members with a certain amount of posts could have permanent membership? I mean, we *know* that Imi will never leave. Sheesh, we've been trying to get rid of her for forever. I just think it might be a good thing, like Firebird said, what with vacation time coming up. (woo!)

Well its not that your membership is revoked its just your account become classed as inactive which reduces you to the level of a guest. All you do is just give us a nod and I'll reactivate you. No biggie really

The other thing of course is accidents or illness where you dont have time to send emails

*gasp* FB! You're an honoured member! Woo! So do you lose all your rpg stats/post stats/money when you're classified as inactive? I'd hate to lose everything I've worked up.

Yeah, I agree in principle with everything here, and I know you want to protect the board, but think the times should be made a bit more generous. Maybe double them? When and if you do make someone "inactive", please send them an email explaining why, and what they have to do to reactivate. Saves hurt feelings. Maybe even a "please respond to this email with something a bot wouldn't write" note a week before? (Yes, there are some people who only check email weekly.) Just some ideas. It's a hard thing to balance, protection and feeling welcome even if you don't post a lot, and not wanting pressure to contribute if you just want to belong and be silent. Cricket

Well not much I can do about that really but as mentioned only those members whose accounts are below the range will be affected by that.

Well....heads up then chugra. I'm gonna be one of those who will constantly get my account blocked due to irregular posting. Um.... Perhaps I am just clueless, but I uh...really don't quite get what the big deal is. I suppose I can understand the pornspam thing, KKK did seem to attract pornspam bots because of its group settings. Still, this seems like overkill. I'm never that active on sites, and more often than not am just an appreciative lurker, but this is the first site I've been a member of which I like that has adopted such strict policies towards regular members. I would have considered myself a regular member prior to the 75 count post prerequisite...but I guess I'm not. Usually what is in place on other sites is at most, a purge policy for members who join but don't post at all. And perhaps around once every six months to a year, purge inactive accounts, and if they are polite and have a way to do so, will send an email warning of the purge to the inactive member. Also a standard 'conduct rules of da board' which if not followed will result in a member/IP being banned after a predetermined warning period. If the point is, as admin, Cep just doesn't have the time available to admin regularly, then I think I can understand the need for automated boot system. But I'm not going to spam the site with random posts just to get my post count up. Just my two cents, but I suspect that it will do more harm than good for membership here because by nature, you will only ever get active members about 10 percent of the time, so the remaining 90 percent who prefer to lurk and post only occasionally (which is the same percentage on any community board I've ever seen anywhere) will be put off to find that they have to jump through perceved hoops for this one single site just to stay active. People will just quit coming. At a generous estimation 10 percent of that 90 percent may be trolls/bots/ troublemakers, so good riddance to them....but the rest? I'm just speaking about human nature here. I've worked in customer service for years. This site is simply another version of customer service. People will just choose another site instead of dealing with the hassle. Just my thoughts guys?

Well to be honest I think the opposite. Those people who want to be a part of the community will join in, I mean is it too much to ask a member to post once in a two week period? I don't think so, if people can't be bothered to use their account then I'll block it to use the resources for someone else who does want too. It may deter some people but at the end of the day if they aren't going to post, whats the loss? Warning emails have been running since the new site came in, simply because its courteous and there has been a membership purge policy in place but its not good enough.

Ah-ayit....

for what its worth, i'm with Buffy. my post count is sporadic at best and i'm no doubt going to get auto-blocked eventually. and what, if in a two week period, i dont read anything i feel like responding to?

Yeah...I'm not into posting just for the sake of posting. Another thought to add to my membership loss comments. What I see happening is, in the long run, the site will be trimmed to a small membership active members with very little new blood adding to the mix. That makes for an active community of like minds, but no growth. (Not that that is different from what we already have, but it will cut off the 'potential' for growth as well...a step further.) Now, I've heard it said by Kat that she is wanting this to be a vital large source for all kinds. But you can't have a large vital site without a few crumbs getting in the mix on occasion. If you lock out the crumbs with strict policy, you won't have the large vital sitem, speaking from experience. I guess it depends on what you guys wanna accomplish. I'm groovy either way. It's just something to consider.

@Lyon Nothing is auto blocked but if you don't feel like responding to something on the forums or posting your own topic in a two week period (which I find highly unlikely) then when you get the email about inactivity you just respond to that, its that simple. @Buffy I don't see how this will effect the growth of the site Buffy in any way. If people are signing up then the intention is to be an active part of the community not to sign up and then make their first post about 6 months later, if at all. To say that the membership will be trimmed to a small active group is pretty.... well.....daft hun because at the end of the day the community is not the over extended members list where half the people never post. The community is the active group who contribute to keeping the forums alive. Forums were a post is made every 6 weeks or only two or three people are active die out. Forums with lots of activity grow, its that simple.

Well, to be blunt...I dunno, I guess I just balk at the 'post or else' message I'm getting. It implies quantity over quality and shades of control. Think of me as a mule who will work all day with a smile on my face if someone gives me a scratch on the ears and a carrot. But if someone hits me with a stick and tells me I have to work, I'll sit my ass down(pun inteneded) and loose all motivation. I'm not trying to be a troublemaker, I just am having a hard time agreeing with the approach and know you would appreciate honesty above all else. Upon thinking about it, I suppose I could create a spam thread to crank my posts up to 75. Dunno, I'm just feeling frustrated. Thing is, there are two reasons I like being a member of this site. One is personal: A friendship I value very much and have kept close to for 3 years. One is public: I have always admired how open and accepting and valuing of freedom this site is above all others. I may not agree with other folks opinions, but I've always known that this site won't censor or curb. So, you can see how the new policy as it is stated would strike me wrong

Hmm I see so its not so much the restrictions themselves its the fact they are there........well alright but I need ideas on how to combat the problem makers... so gimme gimme gimme

Wow Cep! I think I'm the only one who agrees with you! Ofcourse that could be coz I was a temp administrator for a Sailor Moon group once *shudder*

*cuddles Ashke* dunke! I think the anxiety comes from change, people don't like it but I do know that you need measures like this to have a good community and I think its more the shock of the rules themselves thats causing the anxiety. Afterall at least everyone has been posting more then once a week since this place opened so I'm certain that these changes won't cause the problems being raised here. What if I change the regular members to, Those that have 25 or more posts, or Those vet accounts that where transferred from the old forums.

Hmmm, some of the vet accounts don't seem to have crossed over, e.g., SJ and myself. But other than that, it's a good idea. I'm sure any of the vets from the old system have already told you if their account didn't cross over, and you have dealt with it. Question: how do the porn bots get in in the first place, and what do they do? I'm assuming they apply, get auto-accepted, and then fill the place with ads. If so, would a "personal touch" to the acceptance process work? Either they post something human, or respond to a private email, including something a bot wouldn't be able to do (e.g., you ask them for the capital of Canada). Yeah, 25 posts is more reasonable. Two posts a week for three months, or one a week for six months. I'm on record that I don't mind lurkers. I do mind dead accounts and spammers. Realistically, how many real posts is a bot or human spammer likely to do? As for the "keep active or be blocked" bit, well, it's not like they're booted. Just have to email admin and say "hi, wasn't here for the last month because I was in hospital. Please reactivate me." And, assuming you and your assistants do their jobs, they'll be re-activated within a day or two. Any way blocked accounts can still read the news on their friends? How often do the nasties try to get in, and how much damage do they do? I know some intentionally unfriendly posts have actually started some rather fun threads. Just rambling. You'll never satisfy everyone. Cricket

Supposedly a bot can post 300 times a minute, but I am assuming that would be 300 different sites. However, it is a bit of a nusiance to log on and have an ad with two blonde dimbos "playing" with each other pop up.

Bots attack a site by going from form to form looking for the registration, then they apply to the registration by creating bogus email accounts on the server they are launched from. The current registration system requires you to respond to the two activation notices sent when a new registration is set up. However the newer bots have learnt how to auto respond themselves to these messages and so I have further installed an anti robot code which only a human can complete. A bot will create multiple accounts and keep doing so, some even auto posting a spam message in every, thread, forum that it can find. Think of an infection and thats what a bot is. The new site does have a lot of protection against bots but the old site was attacked last night and had already created 23 new bogus accounts in the thirty minutes before I saw it. This consumes resources. I already know that we have a spy/troll registered who has already registered under another name the exact same day they were told their old account would be blocked and to be honest I can't be doing with that kind of hassle. Which is exactly why the times for response are short. Months and weeks is far too long and if the troll keeps registering when their account is blocked does it really prevent it? No. If that troll is forced to keep creating email accounts, forced to create new registrations they will get bored of it and leave or get banned whichever comes first. In the last two weeks we have had nearly 7 new members of which 4 have actively posted at least once and of those 4 only 2 have posted more then once. So you see the need for short deadlines. Blocking an account basically takes your account to the level of a guest with a bit more freedom. You can't do anything except read topics, so its possible to lurk all you like. Your account remains unchanged, you dont loose your post counts, pms, rpg stuff, topscores or forum enhancements. All that happens is as mentioned you can look but nothing else. Since the site opened we have had 12 bots, three hackers attempts and 1 troll.

Originally posted by Cep Hmm I see so its not so much the restrictions themselves its the fact they are there........well alright but I need ideas on how to combat the problem makers... so gimme gimme gimme

Well, that's not quite what I'm saying. Yes, they are there and affect all members. That bothers me. Yes, the restrictions are too much in my opinion. I stand by my concerns stated earlier on how it might affect membership in X way, but you're expressing the desire for Y membership, so that is not a concern for what you want out of the site. Yes, having newbie policies in place is reasonable. Other sites have them: Usually "Post once please within a week or so and follow the rules of conduct...and if you are inactive beyond X time (usually 60-90 days), you may get your newbie account deleted." Once a member has established themselves, then what I've seen at most is a reminder after 6 months of inactivity that their account is about to close. So I have no problem with reasonable controls. I just didn't see the proposed controls as reasonable. If you lower the 'full membership' requirements, or grandfather in old loyal members, I've got much less of a concern. And let me test my limited tech understanding. You are most concerned about trolls who get an account and don't post, but through that account may hack the system and cause damage. Or more likely, set up a base account that gives porn bots and the like a platform to proliferate? You also mentioned that you know of a specific troll who is constantly working on this site through I will assume is a personal agenda. You have no way to get his/her IP banned through proper channels I take it? As well, automatically banning any membership that comes from that IP. A more extreme approach, but it sounds like you are open to extreme suggestions. (Note: This took a while to write, so the last post I read was the one I quoted....will read what follows now. Ignore any of my questions that were addressed in the posts I missed while I was typing)

Originally posted by Cep In the last two weeks we have had nearly 7 new members of which 4 have actively posted at least once and of those 4 only 2 have posted more then once. So you see the need for short deadlines.

The info on bots and trolls was helpful, thanks. I agree with your concerns with everything but what I have quoted above. If they don't post at all that's one thing, but I'm still getting the perceved 'hey you, post or else!' thingie....perhaps it is just a matter of degree and approach that I'm seeing?

Well the thing is, I have found that when rules apply to new people only it creates an "us and them" atmostphere which is why the rules encompass everyone. It just seems like the only fair thing to do. The other problem is how do you fairly say that a member has established themselves? I have already tried to do that by saying 75 posts or more makes you a regular member which recieved a very cold reception. And as mentioned 6 months is far too long. Its not even worth having the restriction if you apply a timeline like that as previously mentioned. I have a number of ways to stop trolls, ban their email accounts, ban their IPs or even go after them by netting them but I am a fair person and like to extent at least 3 chances before I take any serious action. I know who they are from their IPs, I even know what browser and version of windows they use, so trust me its not that I dont have the facilities at hand, I'd just much prefer not to use them.

It's not me!!! I'm innocent I swear!!! Well, maybe not exactly innocent, but you know what i mean.

Originally posted by Buffy ...but I'm still getting the perceved 'hey you, post or else!' thingie....perhaps it is just a matter of degree and approach that I'm seeing?

Well its more "hey you, *tap tap*....you active?...no? Ok then *drags dead body out of forum*" If you can think of a better system then please do but so far all the extended timelines that have been given are far too unrealistic to create the necessary detterent. When the site opened it was two weeks from registration to become inactive, one week after you would be deleted. To now say months....well you can see what I mean.

Originally posted by Ashke Wow Cep! I think I'm the only one who agrees with you! Ofcourse that could be coz I was a temp administrator for a Sailor Moon group once *shudder*

sailor moon! muahahaha!!! in the name of truth and justice, and because you dress funny, I WILL PUNISH YOU! gah, that takes me back. i lurved sailor moon. i probably still have one of the largest doujinshi collections around, i was part of LSPR until i got too busy to update my section of it. /me reminisces.

My daughter is still a big fan, she has all the dolls except saturn. she even had me dress up as mask and she was moon for halloween.

you mean this one?

Yeah, thats the one. *sigh*

death ribbon(reborn) revolution! did mention i have all the manga too? the silence glaive rocks.

*chuckles* Ahhhhh. Gratuitous Panty Shots.

Ya know, You guys are SERIOUSLY warping my mind here....How did we get from Member rules to Salor moon panty shots??? *gladly sinks into the insanity * Have I told you how much I LOVE this place???

Yes Imi hun you have on numerous occasions.... ...not that we ever want you to stop mind

Hmmm...Sailor Moon. Too bad that DIC and whatever studio that translated S and SS think that "edit" equals "remove all plot." I have a few fansubs on my laptop. Definitely better in Japanese. As far as the members, I know it creates a "them vs us" thing, but maybe you could extend the time for members? Once the newbies see that we're very friendly and that it's just a precaution against bots and spammers and the like, than it ought to be fine. It's one of those things where sometimes Real Life takes over, perhaps even for a few months, where someone simply doesn't have the time to do a lot internet-wise. Adding that they're blocked from the list, even if it only takes an e-mail to get unblocked, might just be the proverbial straw. On another note, it's very dangerous to leave the site alone for even a day. Sheesh, I was gone for a little over 48 hours and Boom! A million posts to wade through. Off I go! Can't let anyone beat my posting record!

"I solemnly swear to never bring up sailor moon on this site again." {unless somebody does it first}