Now being the strange individual I am (Yes I freely admit this!!) I am wondering are their any books people have read that they would not recommend?

Hehe...Would be interesting to see who likes what in spite of the bad reviews here? Yes! I have one. Though I am sure the warning only applies to a small percentage of this site due to the genre in question. I would not recommend any Cassie Edwards Romance Novel. She does a series of native american historical romance novels though the 'native american historical' part is beyond dubious. Now I admit I have always been a closet historical romance novel fan. They are like comfort junk food for the brain: Same basic plot, saccerine and ambiguous sex scenes heavy on the metaphors, same basic Irish Lass heroine who must have creamy white skin (grunt), a name that sounds like the latest Estee Lauder perfume, and long flowing locks, innocent bla bla bla. But hey, the men are usually hot. well endowed, and they are guaranteed a happy ending. That aside. Why is it Cassie Edwards feels the need to romanticize the language and relationship to the point that it makes one's teeth ache? And for god's sake, WHY does she feel the need to describe orgasm with the name of the novel in EVERY FREAKING TIME? ...and they reached fulfillment in a rush of savage thunder that left them both sated and fulfilled with fulfillment because of the intense savage thunder that thundered through them savagely....because Savage Thunder was the name of their book.... Now that would be forgivable. After all, we're talking romance novel here: The Lick'em Stix of the literature world. What really killed me was the fact that she uses clumsy improbable plot devices to solve all the random story threads as often as she religiously can. ( I think there's a term for that even... 'deus ex mechina' or something?) True example: Brave and handsome native stud loves innocent but in trouble white chick. However, he can't go with her because he is responsible for his adored deaf/blind/mute from birth younger brother who cannot travel with them. Hmmm...problem. Does brother get conveniently stampeded off a cliff in a freak buffalo accident you ask? No, not even that predictable. Brother goes to cave on spirit quest and is in the vicinity of a freak meteor strike, the shockwaves and radiation emissions of which miraculously restore both his hearing and his sight. The brother then goes on to learn to speak and fully function in the tribe within a couple of months or so, managing to snag the sexiest little chick in the village for his own and become a top notch hunter and provider too. (The native chick's name was probably 'Gentle Fawn' or 'Morning Dove' or some such crap to boot). I'm admittedly a little hazy on the aftermath because I started skipping pages to hasten the end of the book at that point. Bleeech. I guess in my defense, I was 16 when I read my first Cassie Edwards and was distracted by the bronze manly chests. I haven't read one in 10 years until last week. No, I won't read one ever again. And neither should anyone else for the love of all that is cheesy.

Well Buffy you can count on me never to do so

me too

Yeah, that really sounds like an author to miss out on... I've generally been quite lucky in my reading choices. And I'm also blessed with a short memory, so that unless a book has somehow tricked me into reading all the way through, with the promise that somehow it's all going to be worth it, instead of just making me give up in the first couple of pages, I'm unlikely to remember it. One book I started about 3 years ago and still haven't finished is Atom by Tom Aylett. Every time I pick it up, I am astounded by his use of language and his imagination and the startling technology, and then I read through a chapter, and I end up thinking he's just taken too many drugs instead and put it down again for another 6 months But if I was able to find his work accessible, I would love it so much. The other thing is finding a book that you loved as a teenager and then reading it again as an adult. It's never the same... so disappointing.

Only read one thing by her, and only the first few chapters, but avoid Jilly Cooper. Seems to think it's slap-stick humour to have rich druggies adopting third-world kids. Doesn't even describe the sex (of which there is plenty -- the town's name is ruttsville) in enough detail to count as porn. Cricket

I have an odd un-recommendation (seems that everyone *likes* this book). Great Expectations by Charles Dickens. 500 pages of boredom ending with an almost climactic scene. Romance books are evil. They scare me even more than doggerel. I'd rather be kidnapped by aliens.

I never liked Dickens. Im told he is good. It would take a very brave alien to come near me. One look at my sardonic collection of anti or alternative theory UFO books and they know there is no hope for them.

yes...*rubs hands*...must get more doggeral

Sheesh, you'd think you guys'd get bored of torturing me with that stuff by now. Right? Uh, guys...*watches as Cep opens book of doggerel* Aaaaaahhhh!!!!!

I think for me it has to be books with gratuitous swearing. I have been getting introduced to a few things bookwise later where they are trying to tell a story of growing up in hard times and do it by swearing every other word

Those get pretty boring after a while, yeah. My mom always told me that it was obvious I had a small vocabulary and thinking process if I had to resort to swearing. ^_^ So it always makes me wonder if the author is any good if there's a lot of swearing. It really bogs the story down for me.

The list of books never to read? Oh, I'm such a critic, it would be SO long! How about a series of books that has my ire right now? The "Left Behind" series of Christian novels. A series of books that deals with what happens when the Rapture occurs and the Anti-Christ and Satan run amok on Earth for seven years. Imagine reading a book where all the blessed Christians are saved (the ones abusing Iraqi POWs, perhaps? Or the ones killing abortion doctors? Or the clergy sexually abusing children?), and the leader of the UN is viewed as the Anti-Christ (Kofi Annan, I never thought you had it in you!). And this series is raking it in, big time. Particularly in the US (how much you want to bet its popular in the Bible Belt?). It just sickens me that in a day and age where tolerance is needed, one of the largest grossing book series is preaching that indeed, one religion (Christianity) is better than the others, and when this Rapture occurs and all the good people are whisked away to be with God, the rest of us are left behind to wallow in the mess THEY helped make. Personally, I can only think of a handful of people on this planet who deserve to be whisked off to any paradise. Oddly enough, only one of them is Christian (Mother Teresa), and she's already been carried off. If God thinks segregation is the way to go, he must have never been forced to sit in the back of the bus. As a wise bumper stick once told me: "If the Rapture comes...can I have your car?" Katse

[I] And this series is raking it in, big time. Particularly in the US (how much you want to bet its popular in the Bible Belt?). Katse

This is just one of the many reasons why I hate living in the Bible Belt...those "Christian" folk scare me.

Sigh.... And as popular culture tells us, Bibles are evil. Hard to be a Christian in today's society. I am blamed for everything. Not to spark a big debate here, but I would like to gently point out that I have learned intolerance and hate and blanket condemnation of a belief system and culture is not a Christian value, any more than it is a Muslem, Hindu, Wiccan, Atheist, or Agnostic value. Intolerance and Hate stems from human failings and fears, not religion itself, whatever flavor it is. "When Religion Becomes A Social Club" tsk. (or would that be "Organized Religion: The Conglomeration of Faiths"?) I am a Christian who happily lives in the Bible Belt. I wouldn't think of condemning anyone on the basis of my religion. It is hurtful, and useless and goes against everything I have learned. And no, I really don't think i'm in the minority of Christians. Of course, it sounds like Kat was criticizing western society as a whole for praising intolarance, with the flavor of the week being intolerant christianity.... If that is the intended message instead, I'd say, search deeper. Pop culture labels that the media slaps at us are nothing but depressing you know? Hard to find good in sensational headlines...and half hour psychumentaries. Actually, I didn't care for the Left Behind series either. I just didn't think it was very well written and was entirly too full of propaganda. And truthfully, as someone who works in a library in the heart of the Bible Belt, I can't say that the Left Behind series is any more popular here than anywhere else. It appeals to a segement of people, just like any other book might appeal to any segment. Short version: If you are looking for unbiased, broad, wellwritten storytelling, Left Behind is not the series for you. If you are searching for passionate glorification of Christianity, to the exclusion of all else, you might just like it.

Let's not forget that the Bible was authored about 2000 years ago when the structure of the society and everything else is so different from nowadays.. Do not misunderstand me, I truly believe that religion holds a very important place in every society both in the formation of the culture, moral and value of the society.. But remember that religion is totally practiced and interpreted by people.. the meaning of a religious life is totally up to interpretation as well.. it could range from leading a God-fearing and obeying life, loving your neighbours, accept 'sinners' and 'good-people' alike.... to killing off all your adversaries.. Religion... as have been known for ages.. is a very powerful tool to manipulate people.. and has been used as such as long as there had been human beings.. Unfortunately, the aforementioned series of books sounds like just another tool for such manipulation. You can't blame some folks in wanting to gain control over believers and steer them towards remaining a certain religion. And we must all admit that fear is a very useful means in achieving it. But as it has been said, it would appeal to certain brands of people.. to the general public.. *snort* Anyhow.. just my 2 cents.. Yuki

Lets face it, xtianity is `not` a tolerant religion full stop. Say compared to Islam, who struggle with being tolerant, (read the `Arabian nights`) Buddists, who dont care, and Hindus who are too busy being Hindus. pagans are intolerant too, come to think of it

Kinda what I was saying with the whole look deeper thing. If I looked for intolerance, I can find it anywhere. If I look for acceptance, I can find that too... No matter what flavor.

I think I covered this in another rant so you should all know my feelings about religion whatever it is

I have looked deeper into this subject and I know exactly what is wrong with religion. We are what is wrong with religion. I love religion, I love spirituality--it's some of the worshippers I can't stand. Katse

.....sorry got excited when I saw Katse

And once again, another halfway serious conversation waylaid (pardon the pun) by talk about sex... Oh well, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em! Katse

yay!

Tengu, darl.... *tsks with a broad smile and gives the girl a noogie* Buddhists don't care?? Hon, Buddhism is all about tolerance. ... Buddhism is just different to the Christian religions in that all Deities, including Budda himself, are all people who have walked this earth...They were all very, very wise men. Prayers are said to ancestors rather than a "spirit" ...And great care is taken to not offend, be tolerant, and to be peaceful and caring to your fellow man, especially your own blood, deceased or alive. And really, when you think about Buddhism preaching peace like every other religion, you have to ask....how many Buddhist wars have there been? So please don't think we don't care....We just....don't want to ram our religion down other people's throats and try to convert them....Like other groups that shall remain nameless. I won't comment on the other religions, as I admit I am too ignorant in all of them to make an educated response. As for books that SUCK..... oh "1984" is the most boring heap of crap on the face of this earth. Yeah, I know it's a classic...but DAMN...I couldn't get past the first few pages.. No gratuitous sex or rampant violence and creepiness like the man Staphen King ...which is possibly why I hated it... NOW A GOOD NOOKIE BOOK....is "HER". I have no idea who the author is, just that it was one of those books we all passed around in highschool and hid from our parents and teachers. Sheesh....that was a hot little number!!

Aw, shucks. I missed such a cool debate. Drat. Heck, I'll put in some of my opinion (aren't ya'll lucky?), but only about one cents worth as a compromise. ^_^ I pretty much agree with Buffy. You find what you look for. If you are waiting for someone to be rude to you, no matter what they say, you'll probably take it the wrong way. Just happens. I'm a Christian (who also doesn't care for the Left Behind books). I will admit to believing that it's the "true" way, but doesn't everyone believe that about their religion (Or most, rather)? Rather than turn people off by being arrogant or trying to scare people into *saying* they're Christians, I'd rather talk with them about what I believe and listen to what they believe. But that's another tangent. As far as atrocities that are commited? The individuals who do these things and claim to be Christian and expect to get into heaven are going to be *very* surprised in the afterlife. Oh, btw, Swannie, I apologise for those dudes waking you up. If you live in the country like I do, they can't find you, though. ^_~ As far as classics...I think very few books classified as such deserve that title. But classic *does* mean that it stays around forever. Some have just outstayed their welcome.

Originally posted by SJ NOW A GOOD NOOKIE BOOK....is "HER". I have no idea who the author is, just that it was one of those books we all passed around in highschool and hid from our parents and teachers. Sheesh....that was a hot little number!!

Okay...sorry...OFF TOPIC ALERT! But SJ's post got me thinking about the books my friends and I passed around to expand our sex education knowledge ( you know...the important stuff your sex ed and parents didn't tell you) Wifey by Judy Blume My Secret Garden by Nancy Friday Whoo! Sizzling hot! Aye Carumba! I now return you to your Religious Debate...

I'd love to hear about that book "Whoo! Sizzling hot!" by Aye Carumba.. Ms Carumba must know her stuff! Sounds like one hell of a novel. Though titles can be misguiding.. *now back on topic* And I wish people would stop calling me an atheist...

For me, `wrong` in religion starts when they start asking me for money....

Tengu....I agree with you 100% Religion is about belief and spirituality, not about money. I also believe -- and this is only my opinion - that Religion becomes wrong when wars are waged in the name of God, or whichever deity they worship. Religions that have the power to defy the laws of the countries in which they hold their choker chain on, also reeks. I was raised Anglican - converted to Buddhism on my marriage to a sexy Buddhist lightning bolt - and really, when I consider the fact that the church is run by the monarchs of England, and was created so that a man could divorce his wife rather than beheading her, to me seems a joke. The bible scites that you should not worship any idol. Sure, no probs, explain the pope to me will you? Oh...I admire the guy, please don't get me wrong. He has done much, and offers hope to a world of frightened people. But by the laws of that black book - he's a no no. I truly believe that religion and belief comes from within yourself. Whatever it is you need to hold on to to get you through a crisis is what you should beleive, and noone has the right to tell you you're wrong. All religions believe in one thing....A higher power. A spirit that guides us all. Be it God, Buddha, allah, Satan, or the world itself, it is the same thing, only with a different name. So to that stupid woman on Jane and Lawrence who corners me every freaking morning to preach to me about Jehova and how that I should find myself a "real" religion....BITE ME!! And now....for me to go get myself a coffee.... SJ pre-coffee, as you can tell, is a bad bad thing. SJ

Oh and let me add something - cos that previous post makes me look like a bigot or something. I actually do enjoy the different religions, and learning about their beliefs. I love that I sit next to a man on the bus who sings prayers from the - I know I'll spell this wrong - Koran every morning. I listen to my Jewish workmate speak of her religious beliefs with intense fascination, and even ask her questions about it constantly. I adore going to the temple and speaking to the monks, experiencing the trip backwards in time to a more innocent era. I find it all fascinating how each worships to their own. Just because I don't necessarily agree, and I disgustingly listen to that scientific part of my being that demands proof, DAMMIT, and poke holes into any theory, doesn't mean I don't respect other's beliefs. Because I do. I just don't like it rammed down my throat. The believers are the church, as far as I am concerned, not the church itself.... Oh my Sweet Buddha...I am just full of it today, aren't I? Today is the day to ignore SJ. Or shoot me.....whichever works for ya.

Hmmm....*contemplates shooting SJ* Nah. Too much legal trouble...right now anyway... The pope (not that he's a bad guy or anything) is one of the reasons I'm not Catholic. He and about, oh, a thousand other "saints" are prayed to (or he will be, when he's dead), and to me that just slightly passes the whole "no idol" thing. There are a *lot* of doctrinal issues that try to figure out more than what's written in the Bible (or sometimes twist one verse in the Bible until it means exactly the opposite of what it was meant to). But I don't believe in doctrines. Er...I've lost my train of thought. So, I guess I'll post this, and if I ever figure out what it was that I was thinking (Heh, not likely), I'll post it. Sound good? *looks nervously at other board members* Aaaah! Here! Look! Sex! *hopes that distracted them*

I am very busy with RL at the moment, but am theoreticaly doing a fic with a buddistic background. (Call yourself a Tengu, theres a bad buddist if there ever was one...) Ok, there were good buddists, like the Theraputae, and King Asoka, who discovered that it was not possible to conquer the world unless he had religious backing.... Theres a good bollywood movie on Asoka but very little of it is about his career in religion. (stomps off to burn down yet another rival monastery...that will teach them to get a better gold plated budda than the one I have got!)

The only religion that has ever appealed to me is Tauism. There is no god....as such. And the golden "rule" (not that it is) is that everyone must find their own path to enlightenment and the next life. Buddishts I don't mind so much. Anyway when will the "major" religions such as christian, muslim and jewish realise they are all different takes on the same thing? Notice the similarities, 1. They all have a holy book. 2. They all have a male god. 3. They are all based in Jerusalem. Christianity is that group who belived Jesus was god, Muslims didn't beleive he was god but thought of him as a prophet and the Jews decided they didn't beleive in him at all. No one though to mention though that Hinduism is perhaps the oldest recorded religion in the world (nearly 6000 years).

How about Cosmicsm from Soviet Era Russia? Its all about mans place in the universe (nowadays it has a more spiritual spin than was PC in those days)

I'm just loving this bouncing back and forth between sex and religion.... Prolly cause deep down all religions were born from someone's really good orgasm....Hmmmmmmmm. I should write a thesis on this....Yeah baby! Oh oh! There's an interesting challenge. Lets all figure out the orgasm link in our own religion! Me first: Immaculate Conception: POW! Mary must have been hit right between the eyes with that one! Boy am I in an irreverant mood today. Oh! I was agnostic for several years! Here's my take on that: "Oh Gawd, hit that Booty-Buddha, Great Spirit...Oh! Yes! Muh-huh-huh-mud! Jeez-US...wait! Yah-yah..WAY! That's the WAY! YES YES YES!!! Whoever you are Just. Don't. Stop!" (hehehehee) Ahem... (gets a little more composed) Taoism is a cool religion. Hinduism is too. I didn't mention it because it just didn't jump to mind at the moment I was rattling off assorted religions. As for Christian/Jewish/Muslem? Oh yeah, they are kissing cousins as far as religions go, with Islam and Christianity both being born out of a shift from Judaism basically. It's the rare religion today that isn't an offshoot of another. In all honesty, if certain folks could get past the 'death to all in the name of my faith' mentality (sometimes translated in milder terms to : I am right, you are wrong so let me fix you and/or insult you and/or tell you why most everyone in your faith is an asshole) I'd be groovy. I think everyone else here is in the same boat really. Oh yeah, and I agree with Tengu totally: Money is the downfall of any religion. Truely the Root of All Evil...That and spiked Koolaid....

Spiked Koolaid rrrocksss! Er...anyways... I just want to say that I wish that people would get past those mentalities as well. It irritates me because it gives people the wrong idea and they often characterize the entire followers of that religion as such, no matter what. I will admit, I do share my faith, but really only when people ask me. Those who kill others to prove that their religion is better, when their religion often promotes peace, are just stupid. Fanatics are dangerous, no matter what the religion.

And I, my dear boardwatchers, am a fanatic....MOOHOOHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! but a fanatic of what, I hear you ask? Seriously, though. I agree with you, Elvin. Anyone thinking of all groups, religious or not, are all "stupid" based on the actions of a small group of people from that group, is just plain...bigotry (did I use the right word?). Intolerance? Intolerance is what truly shits me. The catchcry of the new millenium is "Respect"... (If I hear one more song preaching respect or "where is the love" I'll steal the closest weapon and use it).... It is a shame, however, that this isn't the case. I was going to expand on that, but won't. I just know I'll offend someone... I better stop procrastinating and get to work... SJ

It's actually pretty bad. Here are all these songs preaching tolerance and respect and love and what do most people want to do? Grab a bazooka and blow the singer/composer away, that's what.

Some of the worst fanatics are atheists..... fanatics in cosmicism get shot into space where they can debate the `Great Wall` problem properly. (or else they write SF)

Damn, I was gonna say something and it just flew out of my head. *runs off with giant net trying to catch run-away thoughts* Come baaaack!!

...I got em! ....oo.......maybe not

*watches as the thoughts float around the forum* Ooooh...pretty... *grabs one* Hmmm. Nope, this one doesn't work. Er...do you want it, Drive? I could try to shove it in your ear...or something...

There's a book I ordered from Amazon, and waited for quite a while for. It's "McIndoe's Army", about Archibald McIndoe and the Guinea Pig Club. McIndoe was a surgeon who developed quite a reputation working to reconstruct badly burned WW2 airmen, and the Guinea Pig Club were his patients, so named because many of the surgical techniques they endured as part of their repairs had never been done before. It's a true and utterly human story, which the author clearly believes should tell itself. Which is unfortunate, because stories don't tell themselves at all. He appears to have made a load of notes, shuffled them together in any order so that an even number of pages equalled a chapter, and sent them off to be published. So this story of people trying to get their lives back when the RAF would have happily sent them into institutions to avoid frightening the public is extremely difficult to pick out from the author's disorganised writing and apparent decision to write everything in a way that would mean nobody could be upset by the subject matter. What a terrible book about such a fascinating and brave bunch of people.

Im wondering here...would you call these badly written books..Kitch? oooh Crap!..Kitchz>?...How the heck is that word spelt?? WHy am I even attempting to type after four glasses fo Red?! AArgh...please someone help me with the correct spelling of the word..its gonna haunt me all night to try and find the right way of spelling it!!!!! AAARGHH...

Kitsch? I'm not sure... Thing is, the book I was complaining about shouldn't be kitsch, it should be a fascinating factual book. I've now given up on it altogether because it is so appallingly written. But Savage Thunder (you know I found out this morning that there is an online agony column called Savage Love, and my immediate thought was that it must be done by this romantic fic writer? but it isn't), and all that, that just has to be kitsch. Especially if the covers are pink with shiny letters and big colourful sunsets all over them, with people with shiny limbs and lots of makeup despite them not having access to any. Yeah, definitely.